CALL NOW TO STOP HR2811!!! *edit: Bill Ammended and passed!

[project1]

They have been talking about making a hunting season type deal with the snakes and iguanas in florida. I'm guessing like a varmit license. Which doesn't sound all bad because iv had rattle snake to eat b4 and it was pretty good but there is always the ones who abuse that stuff.

 

[zbsadler]

I do believe it's 'stupid'. The problem isn't throughout the country. I don't see pythons out in the woods in my back yard. This problem is primarily in Florida. Maybe the state should decide to do what is best for the state and leave the federal government out of it. There are other solutions...such as, only allowing people with permits to own one of these snakes or making it illegal to own them in the problem states. Just my 2 c

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Marcia, this rant isn't directed at you. I'm merely disgusted by how quickly everybody calls any movement to try and prevent damage to our own precious wildlife species as "stupid". In the past, reptile owners have very much been part of the problem. In fact, I heard very few reptile owners even admitting that invasive species was a problem until their hobby was attacked.

I feel that legislation of this kind IS stupid, but the ammended bill that passed is a step in the right direction. The original bill did not address the real issues that face our fragile eco-system. How on earth would banning ALL pythons help address a 'cure' for the problem with ferral Burms and retics (which weren't even included in the bill) that have been turned loose in the Everglades?

It would be like gun control... if ALL guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns! Legislation to ban all guns is stupid. It would not help reduce crime because it would not stop criminals from aquiring them and using them. Instead, it would take the right to own guns away from the majority of people who use them responsibly.

Should we make it illegal to own horses because there are so many wild Mustangs that are devastating the environment in Utah and Wyoming? Should we pass legislation to ban all pigs because the wild ferral pigs wreak havok on the natural landscape and ruin farmland? That just wouldn't make sense!

I believe most reptile keepers are fully aware of our responsibility, and will be forthright in admitting that there is a serious problem. Why do you think there are organizations like PIJAC and USARK? Because we all need to make a stand for our rights to keep reptiles, and educate the general public in regard to the responsibility of keeping them. Banning ALL python species here in the US will not solve the problem of irresponsible reptile owners.

Not only that, setting loose large constrictors and iguanas only poses problems where these reptiles will thrive in the wild. For example, let's say someone in Alaska or North Dakota buys a baby Burmese python at a reptile show. It grows to 16 feet and weights 200+ lbs, so they turn it loose. There is no way that python would survive in the Dakota or Alaskan natural environment. How would banning those snakes in every US State solve the issue of irresponsible people in southern Florida? It wouldn't. It would only turn ALL python owners into 'criminals', and the few that are careless and irresponsible would still let their huge snakes loose in the swamp.

I am a member of both PIJAC and USARK, and I support the ammended bill that DID pass... to end the importation of these invasive species, and for the State of FLorida to impose huge fines and sentences on those who do not obey the laws. I doubt that it will stop any illegal importation, but it's a reasonable place to start. I also supported the upcoming emergency capture bounty hunt in the Everglades for ferral, non-indigenous species in an effort to begin to eliminate those that are devastating the already fragile environment there.

I am all for "EDUCATION, NOT ELIMINATION". That's one of the reasons this very website exists!

 

[zbsadler]

Very well stated Marcia I agree 100% :main_thumbsup:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

OK now... HERE is the way to remedy this situation without BANNING all pythons in the US! Kudos to Florida!!!

http://www.news-press.com/article/20090801/NEWS01/908010348/1002

 

[zbsadler]

why destroy them?:main_no:

OK now... HERE is the way to remedy this situation without BANNING all pythons in the US! Kudos to Florida!!!

http://www.news-press.com/article/20090801/NEWS01/908010348/1002

 

[Wolfyhound]

What do you suggest they do with thousands of feral burmese pythons?

Zoos don't want them, private owners don't want them, you can't ship them back to the originating countries without massive funding(think housing for quarentine, feeding, cleaning, etc, then shipping, and arranging a release site, etc etc etc).

Euthanizing them is the best way. Sorry for the snakes, but there isn't other viable alternatives.

 

[zbsadler]

What do you suggest they do with thousands of feral burmese pythons?

Zoos don't want them, private owners don't want them, you can't ship them back to the originating countries without massive funding(think housing for quarentine, feeding, cleaning, etc, then shipping, and arranging a release site, etc etc etc).

Euthanizing them is the best way. Sorry for the snakes, but there isn't other viable alternatives.

Guess I'll go out there and start slaughtering cats and pigs........

 

[ElapidSVT]

Guess I'll go out there and start slaughtering cats and pigs........

i'm right there with ya!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

why destroy them?:main_no:

I don't like the idea of slaughtering them either, but what are they supposed to do with them? The reason they were turned loose in the Everglades is because they were unwanted to begin with. I believe they should be humanely euthanized, like they do with all other ferrel animals that have become invasive. I'm not sure I like the idea of 'open season' and having them suffer in any way at the hands of hunters, but we cannot allow these snakes to destroy the already fragile environment in southern Florida.

For example, ferrel (wild) pigs are a HUGE problem in many states. They are allowed to be hunted. What would be done with them if they were simply captured? Where would they be housed? Where would the money come from to feed and care for them? Should we just build huge compounds to collect them? Who would do that... PETA?

 

[ajveachster]

I'm not sure I like the idea of 'open season' and having them suffer in any way at the hands of hunters, but we cannot allow these snakes to destroy the already fragile environment in southern Florida.

My two cents is this. As with all large groups of people you will have those who do their best to limit the amount of suffering accompanied with killing an animal, and those who do not. As a former hunter the goal was always a one shot kill, and always use what we shot. I know this is not always the case. Where I lived in Nebraska and where I live in Ohio they have had added deer seasons to help reduce overpopulation. In the case of the invasive snakes, all are considered too many. We can only hope that those who do choose to hunt them use their best judgment and show proper respect to both the animal whose life they are taking and the environment in which they are doing so.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

We can only hope that those who do choose to hunt them use their best judgment and show proper respect to both the animal whose life they are taking and the environment in which they are doing so.

VERY well said!

 

[snowgyre]

I've said this before in other threads, but I'll rehash my opinion in here as well.

What is 'humane' euthanasia? By definition, euthanasia should be a quick and relatively painless way to end a creature's life. Whether by drug, bullet, or knife, an animal's life can be ended quickly and painlessly in a variety of ethical ways. It disturbs me that hunting is so often seen in such a negative light, especially when the most successful conservation model in the entire world is right here in the United States, and hunting is the heartbeat of that model.

Are there unethical hunters out there? Sure there are, just as there are unethical reptile owners. Please don't assume all hunters are bad because of the few bad examples out there.

In actuality, death by bullet or by a quick blow to the head is the most humane form of euthanasia out there. Death by gas chamber is suffocation, and there is a plethora of peer reviewed literature that discuss how unethical this is, yet we continue to put down thousands of pet-quality animals a year using this method. Death by lethal injection is more humane, but is very expensive, and the animal is hazardous material afterwards. In other countries, the presence of lethal injection carasses has caused several species of scavenging birds and mammals to decline precipitously (down to endangerment) due to poisoning.

In contrast, a hunted animal experiences a minimal amount of pain and stress if hunted correctly. The carcass is not poisoned, and proceeds from SELF-IMPOSED taxes on hunting licenses, hunting accessories, and ammunition go entirely to conservation efforts. This does not even get into regional influxes of income because of the presence of hunters.

An ethical hunter always uses the animal they kill. I shoot two white-tailed deer a year, because it's all I can eat. I don't buy beef. I kill, gut, and butcher the animal myself (yes folks, a 28 year old woman isn't afraid to be responsible for the origins of her food and get bloody preparing it).

Exotic species have no place in the environment. Hunting is a sustainable and ethical method to control (although not eliminate) exotic, damaging, feral species. If hunters did not kill feral hogs, we would NOT have sea turtles nesting anymore in the southeastern United States. The hogs dig up the nests and eat the eggs. Feral cats is a whole other issue I don't want to even get started on (trap-neuter-release is a farce, folks, it doesn't work and even PETA thinks it's unethical). If we do not control the Burmese python problem, who knows what irreplaceable wildlife resources we will lose? Among the first would be the highly endangered Key Largo Woodrat.

Whew, you guys sure get me into essay writing mode with these topics. Apologies for the length, but I'll be Dr. Vanessa Lane in one more year, and I'm studying wildlife biology. I have a perspective on this topic that I think few of you get exposed to, so I felt that I needed to say my piece. In addition, I'm actually teaching a seminar this semester entitled "The Ethics of the Hunt", so this topic is very fresh on my mind.

 

[zbsadler]

I'm a hunter as well but I eat what I kill.....I doubt that these snakes have become a meal for anyone lol. I believe that humans are the ones that are destroying these fragile environments. They probably wouldn't be fragile in the first place were it not for people.

 

[snowgyre]

Brian, that is very true. Unfortunately, it is far easier to control animal populations than our own, and even that is a difficult prospect. People don't think twice about having a gazillion children and then wonder why nature is suffering. Too many people on a small planet, and people don't know how to share.

 

[zbsadler]

We have to stop moving in on these environments. We are driving animals to extinction every year. All it takes is a little responsibility on our part.

 

[ajveachster]

I kill, gut, and butcher the animal myself (yes folks, a 28 year old woman isn't afraid to be responsible for the origins of her food and get bloody preparing it).

Been there, done that. Got pretty good at recognizing cuts of meat and why they are tender/tough etc...by doing it too. Learned some interesting animal anatomy as well.

 

[Gecko Euphoria]

This is the best explanation I have heard. Backing hunters like myself. I hunt its my life along with my reptiles. If we did'nt hunt " Utah" for example would have many problems. One being that the herds of deer and elk would multiply to outragiousely high numbers "overpopulation" which would eventually crowd out all other species and eventuallyt run them selves out of room and food caused by overpopulation. This problem has been evident to my family as we own 160,000 acres of mt. property and farm land and the elk hunt in that region was closed for 10 years. The hunt finally was reopened last year because of over popultaion infact a few farmers were sent bank rupt from the devistation the elk herds caused their crops, and we spent alot of money trying to repair all the damage caused by the herds. And disease spread through some of the heards like wild fire. So I advocate responsible hunting, alot of people only look at hunting as the killing part being that hunters are murderers and crazys instead of the real goal the management of the animals and enivironment. With the python if they breed and get out of hand they could have dire consequences to the native species as they eat some of them and the competition with other species would also endanger the weaker of the species. Plus they could introduce foriegn disease which the native species of the area may not be equipped to handle. Take chronic wasteing disease in deer and elk for example which originated from livestock. it has been a bad disease which the wildlife cannot overcome. So its very bad if there is not some management of these foreign snakes that are released into an environment thats not adapt to sustain them. So if hunting is a way for management I beleive that its a good thing and there is alot of worse things that could be done to eradicate the snakes at least this way they will die quicker and more humane with as little suffering as possible. Its just common sense that we hunt them if they have became a problem!!! It would make the states involved money from an economic standpoint. Also it would also save the states and tax payers millions of dollars from hireing paying companies to take care of the problem. Its a good thing for us to be allowed to manage it rather than the government paying to have it done. Just one mans opinion from what I have seen first hand in my own state, and know that proper management is a must, along with education which is the very most important, thanks

I've said this before in other threads, but I'll rehash my opinion in here as well.

What is 'humane' euthanasia? By definition, euthanasia should be a quick and relatively painless way to end a creature's life. Whether by drug, bullet, or knife, an animal's life can be ended quickly and painlessly in a variety of ethical ways. It disturbs me that hunting is so often seen in such a negative light, especially when the most successful conservation model in the entire world is right here in the United States, and hunting is the heartbeat of that model.

Are there unethical hunters out there? Sure there are, just as there are unethical reptile owners. Please don't assume all hunters are bad because of the few bad examples out there.

In actuality, death by bullet or by a quick blow to the head is the most humane form of euthanasia out there. Death by gas chamber is suffocation, and there is a plethora of peer reviewed literature that discuss how unethical this is, yet we continue to put down thousands of pet-quality animals a year using this method. Death by lethal injection is more humane, but is very expensive, and the animal is hazardous material afterwards. In other countries, the presence of lethal injection carasses has caused several species of scavenging birds and mammals to decline precipitously (down to endangerment) due to poisoning.

In contrast, a hunted animal experiences a minimal amount of pain and stress if hunted correctly. The carcass is not poisoned, and proceeds from SELF-IMPOSED taxes on hunting licenses, hunting accessories, and ammunition go entirely to conservation efforts. This does not even get into regional influxes of income because of the presence of hunters.

An ethical hunter always uses the animal they kill. I shoot two white-tailed deer a year, because it's all I can eat. I don't buy beef. I kill, gut, and butcher the animal myself (yes folks, a 28 year old woman isn't afraid to be responsible for the origins of her food and get bloody preparing it).

Exotic species have no place in the environment. Hunting is a sustainable and ethical method to control (although not eliminate) exotic, damaging, feral species. If hunters did not kill feral hogs, we would NOT have sea turtles nesting anymore in the southeastern United States. The hogs dig up the nests and eat the eggs. Feral cats is a whole other issue I don't want to even get started on (trap-neuter-release is a farce, folks, it doesn't work and even PETA thinks it's unethical). If we do not control the Burmese python problem, who knows what irreplaceable wildlife resources we will lose? Among the first would be the highly endangered Key Largo Woodrat.

Whew, you guys sure get me into essay writing mode with these topics. Apologies for the length, but I'll be Dr. Vanessa Lane in one more year, and I'm studying wildlife biology. I have a perspective on this topic that I think few of you get exposed to, so I felt that I needed to say my piece. In addition, I'm actually teaching a seminar this semester entitled "The Ethics of the Hunt", so this topic is very fresh on my mind.

 

[StatikStepz]

Ok, so i just sat down and read this WHOLE ENTIRE thread from from to back. I completely unaware that ANY of this went down. I had no knowledge of any bill that has passed regarding snakes. I'm bored waiting on time for me to leave for work, and so i thought i'd share my thoughts on this...

1st off, i think the bill is crap. I don't think that banning the sale or trade or burmese pythons and African Rock Pythons will stop anything. I think it's rediculous. For 1, people are going to do what they are going to do. 2, for some people, when you tell them "no", that just entices them to do it more, so they can "get one over on the system". 3rd, how on earth do they expect to enforce this and regulate it. They can't. Are government officials going to go into every single person's home and hope they are an importer of these snakes and bust them for it if so? And finally, punishing EVERYONE for a few people's ignorance is rediculous. What about those that are responsible for their animals, and only acquire what they know they will be able to take care of, and are fully educated on them to be able to do so...?!?! Should those people be punished by this too? Maybe the solution would have been to make it to where any of these people must have a permit of some sorts to own these and import these. And not a inexpensive permit by any means either. Then that way, they real people that do know what they are doing and can take care of them, will not mind making the investment, because they know their stuff. And that way, the people that are responsible for this, will think twice about wanting one or getting one... because then if they have to pay $1,000 for it or whatever it may be, they won't because they won't want to put down the money for a snake they know they aren't going to take care for or may only want until about 3 or 4 feet long. And then to enforce it, make all sales or imports to anyone that that does not have a permit. With the sale of venomous reptiles, you must have some sort of a permit to buy one, correct? And most people that sell them honor this and abide by it, and it works for the most part, so why can't the same be done for this.

Nevertheless, it is to the point that it is now, which is whats done is done, and now we all must deal and pick up the pieces left by irresponsible owners that have created this problem. As a South Florida resident, i am all too aware of this "problem" of the snakes being released in our everglades and destroying the natural habitat and ecosystem. (And especially the story that happened in Orlando. I don't know if anyone heard of it, but a family in Orlando had about a 15 foot burmese, and it escaped from the cage one nite and tried to eat their baby in the cage. Ended up killing it. Didn't actually eat it, but the poor baby did die as a result. Sad as it is, who's fault is that??? Not the snake's... it was just doing what its natural instinct told it to do. Its nothing but the owner/parent's fault. They did not properly house the snake and ensure it could not get out. So should all burmese python owners be punished for this? I think not. It's the same as pitbull owners.. because one attacks, should ALL pitbulls be put down??? Pitbulls are actually some of the nicest dogs out there, its just that people only care to see the bad side of them which is that they can be bad dogs if you bring it out in them.) Where i live is not even 30 minutes to 45 minutes away from the everglades, and i have been there often. It is always on the news about how they found a 15 foot burmese out there, and killed it, etc etc etc. Whats also on the news which was not noted anywhere here, is about all the different monitors that get too big for people and then people release out there. Especially Nile Monitors. Nile Monitors are becoming as big of a problem in our Everglades as the snakes being released... (which i'll tell u something about that in a minute when i'm done, lol). Now as far as there being an "open season" down here in the Everglades, i am for it. Screw PETA and all those those organizations that may say its unethical. As a South Florida resident, i'm all too aware of how much the Everglades are being destroyed and are in danger. It's all they ever teach us in schools growing up. And the fact that it IS one of the last few remaining natural habitats in the U.S. that is unlike any other, should be enough reason to do so! Now trust me, i'm not one of these "tree-hugger" people that are going all "green" and all, but i do agree with it... it is true. I feel that man was put here on this earth to rule over all animals. It is our responsibility to either respect or abuse that right. If we choose to abuse it, then well, the only way to correct and recitify the problem is to clean it up. I don't hunt myself, but i don't feel anything is wrong about hunting. As long as it is humanely done, and you only kill what you need, then there is nothing wrong with it. And as long as we stay within the limits of what is regulated by different legislatures as a quota for what is allowed, to protect the natural balances and populations, then it is all fine and in fair game. Iguanas are big problem here aswell, and there is a law down here, that you come across one, you may kill it, because they are considered a neusance. So people actually go out with pellet guns or whatever, and kill them, and eat them! lol

Anyway, thats my rant and thoughts on the subject at hand. If anyone cares to shed some light on my thoughts, please feel free, whether you agree or disagree on certain subjects! I'd like to hear different peoples views!

Oh, yeah, about the Nile Monitor thing in the Everglades. There is a local importer/exporter down here by the name of Tom Crutchfield (www.tomcrutchfield.com). I'm sure some of you in the snake industry have heard of him, he is a big name and very well known. He is located in Florida City, south of Miami. Well, anyway, a buddy of mine and myself drove down one day to his "compound" to check it out and take a tour, and because he wanted to buy a few baby carpet pythons, because my friend has bought snakes from him before. So u know, reptile people, they start sharing stories... lol... so my buddy started tellin him how he owned an almost 6 foot Nile Monitor named "Debo" who is very tame and docile. Well Tom Crutchfield happens to know Steve Irwin's wife, Jeff Corwin, and Nigel from Animal Planet and has alot of connections with them. Well long story short, Animal Planet was going to be shooting a documentary with Jeff Corwin on how invasive species (Nile Monitors, certain snake species, etc) are being released into the Everglades by people who can no longer afford them or take care of them for whatever reasons, and are destroying the natural balance and ecosystems, and needed a few tame animals to shoot this documentary with. So my friend loaned out "Debo" to him for Animal Planet to use for this show they were shooting down there. They used Debo, and filmed him in the Everglades, and made it seem like they filmed him in the wild there, lol, and filmed him doing things like digging up alligator nests and eating the eggs, etc... Well, the video is all done now, and my buddy has Debo back now (this was a few months ago), so i dunno when, but sooner or later, Animal Planet will be airing this documentary/show with Jeff Corwin, and Debo will be in it! Debo is a movie star now! Lmao.