De-Clawing

[StinaKSU]

Like I said....its one reason amongst several...I'm well aware that zoonoses come from other places...but having cats that carry them around doesn't improve the situation...especially when they see children's sandboxes as giant litter boxes. Also vaccination doesn't protect against everything and no cat that is allowed outdoors is safe... barn cats I am not entirely against...I understand the need on farms where rodents can become a problem and cats can be a better/safer solution than anything else...but a pet cat has no reason to be allowed outside other than because it "wants" to go outside....which to me is not a good enough reason to put it at risk for disease and/or parasites (and potentially passing them along), being hit by a car, getting attacked by another animal....etc the average lifespan of outdoor cats in the US is about 3 (maybe it was 3 1/2). 3 1/2 years for animals that not too uncommonly live to around 20 and who's average lifespan indoors is over 10 is pitiful.

 

[robin]

Like I said....its one reason amongst several...I'm well aware that zoonoses come from other places...but having cats that carry them around doesn't improve the situation...especially when they see children's sandboxes as giant litter boxes. Also vaccination doesn't protect against everything and no cat that is allowed outdoors is safe... barn cats I am not entirely against...I understand the need on farms where rodents can become a problem and cats can be a better/safer solution than anything else...but a pet cat has no reason to be allowed outside other than because it "wants" to go outside....which to me is not a good enough reason to put it at risk for disease and/or parasites (and potentially passing them along), being hit by a car, getting attacked by another animal....etc the average lifespan of outdoor cats in the US is about 3 (maybe it was 3 1/2). 3 1/2 years for animals that not too uncommonly live to around 20 and who's average lifespan indoors is over 10 is pitiful.

all of our outdoor cats lived to ripe old ages (generally 15 or so years). gibbi my "pet" cat who was both indoor/outdoor lived to be 21 years old. but we kept them all vaccinated, they got yearly exams and were wormed regularly. i do not know where you get your info on outdoor cats but, it is not surprisingly, off. maybe new york city veterinary society or something?

 

[StinaKSU]

Just b/c your cats lived to that age does not in any way make it the average or even anywhere near it.

copied directly from the HSUS "The estimated average life span of a free-roaming cat is less than three years—compared to 15–18 years for the average indoor-only cat. " (http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/c...e_at_home_hsuss_safe_cats_campaign/index.html)
Tufts vet school "Indoor cats have an average life span of 14 years, whereas outdoor-indoor cats have an average life span of only four years." (http://www.tufts.edu/vet/behavior/feline.shtml)

I could find numerous other sources for you on that one...but I really don't have the time.

 

[Scott&Nikki]

Mike, you were just looking for some entertainment when you started this thread, weren't you??

 

[StinaKSU]

Get me and robin in one place and a "cat fight" ensues...... feel free to derive entertainment....

 

[robin]

Just b/c your cats lived to that age does not in any way make it the average or even anywhere near it.

copied directly from the HSUS "The estimated average life span of a free-roaming cat is less than three years—compared to 15–18 years for the average indoor-only cat. " (http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/c...e_at_home_hsuss_safe_cats_campaign/index.html)
Tufts vet school "Indoor cats have an average life span of 14 years, whereas outdoor-indoor cats have an average life span of only four years." (http://www.tufts.edu/vet/behavior/feline.shtml)

I could find numerous other sources for you on that one...but I really don't have the time.

i hardly find the humane society a reliable resource (as most of what it deals with is within a city) and as far as tutts university? where is that. looks mostly like an arts school. can you get me some studies and stats from the more well known better vet schools such as the university of texas A&m, UC davis, Cornell University, Berkly, Colorado State University, Florida, University of Pennsylvania or the likes.

 

[SteveB]

Uh... robin... Tufts is THE #1 Vet School in the country... if I'm not mistaken

 

[robin]

Get me and robin in one place and a "cat fight" ensues...... feel free to derive entertainment....

no "cat fight" going on here. not at least from my perspective

 

[robin]

Uh... robin... Tufts is THE #1 Vet School in the country...

i beg to differ

 

[StinaKSU]

I personally am not a big fan of the HSUS either...but usually their data is not too far off. As far as Tufts, it IS a well known vet school....and you could look it up yourself you know. I already know the information, I dont' need to prove it to myself, and I don't have the time to try to prove it to someone who won't agree with me no matter what proof I provide.

 

[Scott&Nikki]

Get me and robin in one place and a "cat fight" ensues...... feel free to derive entertainment....

See, I don't have the facts like you guys do, but all I can say is I HATE seeing the cat running around in -25 wind chill and 7 inches of snow.

 

[robin]

honestly stina. you really don't know as much as you claim to. can't give me any info, studies or whatever and you are in vet school?
and no i can not give you any studies but what i can give you is info from EXPERIENCE
i don't care what you plan on being when you grow up but at this point its just books and school. it doesnt make you any more superior, better than or know more than any one else.

 

[SteveB]

i hardly find the humane society a reliable resource (as most of what it deals with is within a city) and as far as tutts university? where is that. looks mostly like an arts school. can you get me some studies and stats from the more well known better vet schools such as the university of texas A&m, UC davis, Cornell University, Berkly, Colorado State University, Florida, University of Pennsylvania or the likes.

"Free-ranging cats in the United States have an average lifespan in the general population of only 3 to 5 years; indoor cats have an average lifespan of 12 years and frequently live longer than 20 years."

(Karen L. Overall, M.A., V.M.D., Ph.D., Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behavior; Department of Clinical Studies School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)

 

[robin]

"Free-ranging cats in the United States have an average lifespan in the general population of only 3 to 5 years; indoor cats have an average lifespan of 12 years and frequently live longer than 20 years."

(Karen L. Overall, M.A., V.M.D., Ph.D., Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behavior; Department of Clinical Studies School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)

isnt that what stina said verbatim? copy and paste i suspect?

also is that city, rural or both. and that is her quote but what about the study and research. thats what i am getting at here steve.
what is stina like your love or something?

 

[SteveB]

Quotes from Dr. James Richards, Director, Cornell Feline Health Center,
College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York.


"The hazards of the outdoors-automobiles, dogs, rival cats, poisonous plants, infectious diseases, and fleas, to name but a few-are compelling reasons to keep cats exclusively indoors."

"Indoor cats are unquestionably safer and healthier than outdoor cats, and they make better household pets."

 

[StinaKSU]

robin, your "experience" with, what was it?...6 or so outdoor cats, does not make it the average.... and your experience doesn't make you better than or know more than anyone else either. I am not claiming or acting like I am better than anyone else...I am sharing the information that I have learned...and it having been from books and school does not make it any less respectable or correct than experience. and I gave you info, you just choose to ignore it b/c it came from me. I'm sure I could find more information, but I know it won't make any difference with you and I just plain don't have the time....vet school is not exactly a pursuit that allows a whole lot of free time to waste trying to prove things to people who won't listen anyway.

 

[Russ S]

OK I'm confused ....... Does "Free Range" mean cats without a home? Or are they cats that are owned by someone that takes care to keep their outdoor pet fed, up on all vacinations, and get regular vetrenary care?

 

[StinaKSU]

isnt that what stina said verbatim? copy and paste i suspect?

I see you didn't read it.....seeing as how it was from U Penn...who you asked to see info from. Similar information doesn't make it a copy and paste....especially from a completely different source.

 

[SteveB]

isnt that what stina said verbatim? copy and paste i suspect?

Do you know what verbatim or copy and paste mean? Try to find my quote, which is from a source you claim to respect, in stina's posts?

Can't find it? Well I guess it's not what stina said verbatim, which means she certainly didn't copy and paste it.


It's time for you to back off, robin. Obviously it's personal, because you simply haven't backed up any of your statements other than by attacking stina.

 

[robin]

See, I don't have the facts like you guys do, but all I can say is I HATE seeing the cat running around in -25 wind chill and 7 inches of snow.

me either but there are things you can do if you have outdoors cats to ensure there healthy safety and at cold times, the warmth they need