different eyes

[Thorgecko707]

OP said multiple hatchlings had odd eyes. I'd breed those together to see if it is just a fluke or something else. Also pairing the same parents together again for more could help.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

The average leopard gecko keeper/breeder doesn't have the resources to spend $200+ on a gecko.

I don't know what's scarier....that statement, or the fact that people are taking the cheapest, shortcuts possible in order to try and create morphs that end up muddying the water even more than it already is. IMO, if you don't have $200-400 to spend on a gecko to do things the right way, then you should not be breeding those type of geckos. We are talking about a high end, brand new genetic eye trait here. It should be done the right way, without muddying the water and I'm sorry, but it costs money to do that. Yes, the day of the $2000 gecko may be gone, but $200-400 for something that is very limited and quality breeders spent a ton on to create......is a bargain in my opinion.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in this post btw, but there is a disturbing trend going on in this awesome hobby, talking with plenty of well know breeders and it seems to be that alot of "breeders", not all of course, could care less about how they go about creating morphs, and do it as cheaply as possible without giving a damn about mixing things that shouldn't be mixed. Thus ruining the price of high end geckos that should be selling for twice what they are now for responsible breeders who spend a bunch of money and put in a bunch of time to do it the right way. That's why almost every medium-large breeder has cut back production. There's too much "junk" out there that people are being hypnotized into buying. Whatever happened to "quality" over quantity? :main_huh:

 

[Thorgecko707]

The marble project has been put in its own room out of fear of an accidental mix. We have room for 15 more marbles btw so PM me! >_<

 

[Wild West Reptile]

The marble project has been put in its own room out of fear of an accidental mix. We have room for 15 more marbles btw so PM me! >_<

Only 15? I only sell them in groups of 20.

 

[andrew5859]

I dont think you could have said that any better! Its the sad truth though.

I don't know what's scarier....that statement, or the fact that people are taking the cheapest, shortcuts possible in order to try and create morphs that end up muddying the water even more than it already is. IMO, if you don't have $200-400 to spend on a gecko to do things the right way, then you should not be breeding those type of geckos. We are talking about a high end, brand new genetic eye trait here. It should be done the right way, without muddying the water and I'm sorry, but it costs money to do that. Yes, the day of the $2000 gecko may be gone, but $200-400 for something that is very limited and quality breeders spent a ton on to create......is a bargain in my opinion.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in this post btw, but there is a disturbing trend going on in this awesome hobby, talking with plenty of well know breeders and it seems to be that alot of "breeders", not all of course, could care less about how they go about creating morphs, and do it as cheaply as possible without giving a damn about mixing things that shouldn't be mixed. Thus ruining the price of high end geckos that should be selling for twice what they are now for responsible breeders who spend a bunch of money and put in a bunch of time to do it the right way. That's why almost every medium-large breeder has cut back production. There's too much "junk" out there that people are being hypnotized into buying. Whatever happened to "quality" over quantity? :main_huh:

 

[justindh1]

I don't know what's scarier....that statement, or the fact that people are taking the cheapest, shortcuts possible in order to try and create morphs that end up muddying the water even more than it already is. IMO, if you don't have $200-400 to spend on a gecko to do things the right way, then you should not be breeding those type of geckos. We are talking about a high end, brand new genetic eye trait here. It should be done the right way, without muddying the water and I'm sorry, but it costs money to do that. Yes, the day of the $2000 gecko may be gone, but $200-400 for something that is very limited and quality breeders spent a ton on to create......is a bargain in my opinion.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in this post btw, but there is a disturbing trend going on in this awesome hobby, talking with plenty of well know breeders and it seems to be that alot of "breeders", not all of course, could care less about how they go about creating morphs, and do it as cheaply as possible without giving a damn about mixing things that shouldn't be mixed. Thus ruining the price of high end geckos that should be selling for twice what they are now for responsible breeders who spend a bunch of money and put in a bunch of time to do it the right way. That's why almost every medium-large breeder has cut back production. There's too much "junk" out there that people are being hypnotized into buying. Whatever happened to "quality" over quantity? :main_huh:

You always take things way out of context. I am sorry that I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on credit cards to pay for geckos that I wouldn't be able to get half the price for. I wish these people good luck on their venture but that's not for me.

If you think that people need to spend $200+ per gecko to breed then your obviously living in candy land. The majority of people who are buying these high end morphs are high end breeders. 75% of the rest of the population drools over them and than purchases something they can afford and that won't put them more in debt or in debt. There is great geckos with great genetics under $200.

This gecko is more then likely related to an eclipse then ME so why spend double the amount proving something that it is more then likely not? That is the topic at hand not how much a ME is worth paying for. It's about taking the more logical path that happens to be cheaper as well. There is nothing wrong with that. This world has got into the attitude that all things that cost more are always better. That is what is getting this world into trouble. We want to live way beyond our means.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

You always take things way out of context. I am sorry that I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on credit cards to pay for geckos that I wouldn't be able to get half the price for. I wish these people good luck on their venture but that's not for me.

If you think that people need to spend $200+ per gecko to breed then your obviously living in candy land. The majority of people who are buying these high end morphs are high end breeders. 75% of the rest of the population drools over them and than purchases something they can afford and that won't put them more in debt or in debt. There is great geckos with great genetics under $200.

This gecko is more then likely related to an eclipse then ME so why spend double the amount proving something that it is more then likely not? That is the topic at hand not how much a ME is worth paying for. It's about taking the more logical path that happens to be cheaper as well. There is nothing wrong with that. This world has got into the attitude that all things that cost more are always better. That is what is getting this world into trouble. We want to live way beyond our means.

Actually you took it way out of context.
What I meant by "scary" was that it's "scary" from a breeders standpoint that $200-$400 is more than people will spend on a morph right now. It wasn't that long ago that $1000 and up was being spent on morphs like we lived in "candyland" like you stated. Good breeders spend alot of money on their breeding stock, myself included and put alot of time into perfecting their animals so you and I and everyone else can buy beautiful animals. That was my point, not that you NEED to spend $200 on breeders....although, in my opinion, it's not the amount of money, but the quality of the animal, and that usually goes hand in hand. So if you would like to breed (and I'm not saying you are) the orangish, spotted dime a dozen geckos that are "cheap" and everyone and their KID is doing, then by all means do it, there's NOTHING wrong with that....this market needs "cheap" animals as well. But DO NOT tell us that $200 is too much for a rare, quality gecko, and we live in candyland if we need them because there are alot of breeders who need to sell these animals for at least that price just to break even on what they spend to maintain them and recoup their investment. The market is overwhelmed with low grade animals to the point that when an "expensive" one pops up everyone (newbies, basic collectors, most people who go to reptile shows) is in shock and doesn't understand why that morph is so much money. Hell, even andrew5859 who is 15 years old can see that! What do you think would happen to this hobby if everyone thought like you? Do you think that Steve Sykes and Craig at TUG and JMG and Kelli and Pat and every other quality breeder out there would still breed and stay in business?? I would bet if the only thing people bought were geckos under $200 that they would throw in the towel faster than you could say gecko! (from a business standpoint btw...I'm sure they would still keep geckos for themselves, as I know they love them). In fact, we probably wouldn't even have this great forum to discuss anything about geckos! Instead of buying 6 $40 dollar "breeders", maybe consider buying 1 top notch beauty from someone. I'm not here to argue with anyone, but I do want people to understand there's a reason why you need to spend big money on geckos once in a while....whether it be test breeding the right way, or to enhance your line when it goes stale or to just simply have a beautiful top notch gecko to look at. It shouldn't be about who has the most run of the mill geckos. I think that all of the breeders will agree that the prices of geckos are already down from years past, so I hope that we all can understand what is going on and try and support one another by buying more "quality" geckos that will only help produce better quality geckos for the future.

I also agree with your statement that it is more than likely related to the eclipse eye and test breeding it to another eclipse would be fine for his purposes as long as he does the responsible thing with the babies if it turns out to be not the right decision for any reason.

Last but not least.....your statement "We want to live way beyond our means".....Have you even read my "signature"? I couldn't agree more my friend. Cheers!

Sorry for the long winded post, I'm practicing my speech giving.