Diorite questions

[Treefolk]

Is diorite polygenic or dominant and does it only show in snows?

 

[OhioGecko]

Diorite is a Mack Snow het Blizzard line breed for high speckling. So it is Co-dom het recessive, polygenic.

 

[Josh P.]

Why is the het Blizzard necessary in this morph?

 

[OhioGecko]

Without the het blizzard, you get no speckles.


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[Josh P.]

Interesting. Thanks for explaining.
I wasn't aware that being heterozygous for a recessive gene would affect the phenotype. By genetic foundation it should not. Does this happen with any other known genes in leos?

 

[OhioGecko]

Yes they do, here are a couple more from my experience. These traits do not display on 100% of the hets. These should never be used to identify morphs!! Test breeding is the only true form of identifying recessive and co-dom hets.

Murphy Patternelss: High speckling
Blizzards: High speckling
Mack Snow(Co-dom Snows) that do not carry the snow gene: pastels

 

[Treefolk]

Diorite is a Mack Snow het Blizzard line breed for high speckling. So it is Co-dom het recessive, polygenic.

This is very confusing since in Ron Trempers book:

Super Diorite adult: The Super Diorite has many brown speckles like its mineral namesake. The morph does not have black pigment on the body like the Mack Super Snow. It is not a combination morph, but rather a unique codominate mutation from the Mack Super Snow complex. Super Diorite x Super Diorite = 100% Super Diorite.

This tells me that it does not have blizzard, since both expressive parents do not produce a Super Diorite. Also, the diorite I am purchasing from embergecko is the result of diorite x diorite and James did not produce any "blizzards".

As far as it being a blizzard, again from Ron Trempers book:

Super Platinum: Super Diorite x Mack Super Snow gave us a huge surprise. We got what we are calling the "Super Platinum" this morph has all black eyes. *looks like a blizzard in the book* (we did not have any Blizzards in our colony ar the time of this breeding.)

This morph is unofficial until it can be replicated. It is from a Super Diorite x Mack Super Snow breeding, which would be further proof that the Diorite is distinct from the Mack Super Snow. There are, of course, no Blizzard or Eclipse genes in that parental lineage. And unlike the Eclipse Blizzard this is a Super form not a double recessive combo. Currently, we have just the one female. It has all black eyes and 100% silver colored body. As a baby it was a light silver-blue until 5" in length. This project is on going.

I'm wondering what you base your classification on Thad? Have you bred a Diorite to Blizzard and produced visual in the first generation.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Could it be that the original high speckled trait came from a Mack Super snow x super snow blizzard cross and the resulting super snow het blizzards showed the high speckling and the blizzard het was line bred out while the speckling was maintained over time?

From the quick web search I did the made me think the genetics are largely unknown at this point. Ron Tremper himself says in a video he posted less than 3 months ago that its a gene that is "part of the mack snow complex but it is it's own co-dom complex" and that the gene is very rare and only a few people in the US are currently working with them. However, I also came across a few pages that stated that the gene originated in Japan and a few others that had similarly spotted geckos that they claimed were het for MP or Blizzard. It would be cool and interesting if it turns out to be something new but I'll reserve my judgement until someone posts clear details about heritability and evidence from test crosses they've done to prove it's not just a cool super snow with a het for MP or Blizzard in it's background.

 

[Treefolk]

Could it be that the original high speckled trait came from a Mack Super snow x super snow blizzard cross and the resulting super snow het blizzards showed the high speckling and the blizzard het was line bred out while the speckling was maintained over time?

From the quick web search I did the made me think the genetics are largely unknown at this point. Ron Tremper himself says in a video he posted less than 3 months ago that its a gene that is "part of the mack snow complex but it is it's own co-dom complex" and that the gene is very rare and only a few people in the US are currently working with them. However, I also came across a few pages that stated that the gene originated in Japan and a few others that had similarly spotted geckos that they claimed were het for MP or Blizzard. It would be cool and interesting if it turns out to be something new but I'll reserve my judgement until someone posts clear details about heritability and evidence from test crosses they've done to prove it's not just a cool super snow with a het for MP or Blizzard in it's background.

Well, we will find out. I have a 60 gram female coming next week that is a Mack snow Diorite. Gonna breed her to a regular super snow and see if I get any Mack snow/super diorite.

 

[acpart]

On the one hand, I feel that the genetic info provided about Trempers geckos is not always accurate, especially the first time around. On the other hand, I bred a Mack snow to a het blizzard, produced 21 babies, more than half Mack snow, but none had that diorite speckled look.

Aliza

 

[OhioGecko]

This will be our third year working on the Mack Snow x Blizzard project. We produced visual high speckled Mack Snows the first year and kept back a couple of the best ones and produced better ones our second year. I will add pics to this thread.

Treefolk: Breeding a Mack Snow diorite to a Super Snow will produce approx. 50% diorites. I may be wrong on the genetics, but it will be very hard to change my mind when I can produce the exact same looking geckos. And the super form looks just like a Super Snow Blizzard??

 

[Treefolk]

This will be our third year working on the Mack Snow x Blizzard project. We produced visual high speckled Mack Snows the first year and kept back a couple of the best ones and produced better ones our second year. I will add pics to this thread.

Treefolk: Breeding a Mack Snow diorite to a Super Snow will produce approx. 50% diorites. I may be wrong on the genetics, but it will be very hard to change my mind when I can produce the exact same looking geckos. And the super form looks just like a Super Snow Blizzard??

I would love to compare yours to the girl I am getting.

As far as how a diorite works or what it is, I have no idea and can only go off of what James and Ron have told me.

Here is the girl I'm getting:

 

[OhioGecko]

First generation


First generation and second generation side by side

Second generation


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[OhioGecko]

Another second generation


The speckling is considerably finer in the second generation. I'm excited to see the results from this years breeding and if it even gets better.

Treefolk: I think it looks very similar to the gecko you are getting, but the head and tail on yours have more spots and less space between the black spots. I would be curious if Murphy Patternless maybe involved also. The only true way of finding out is getting a male and breeding it to a Blizzard and Murphy females.

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[Treefolk]

Thank you for the pictures Thad.

They do look very similar. The plan is to breed this girl to a super snow male (het free) and incubate the eggs to male and hopefully get a super snow diorite. If i do get one, breed it back to mom and now going to test it against a patty and blizzard.

 

[OhioGecko]

Thank you for the pictures Thad.

They do look very similar. The plan is to breed this girl to a super snow male (het free) and incubate the eggs to male and hopefully get a super snow diorite. If i do get one, breed it back to mom and now going to test it against a patty and blizzard.

Good plan! I look forward to your results.


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[Alceste]

How do I set my search to only return threads like this? Content, discussion, individual results with accompanying pictures. Wonderful.

Anyway, Thad is it? When you say second generation for your het blizzards, does this mean they are the result of a het x non-het or het x het ? Thanks.