Do you love geckos? No, really though, do you?

[sunshinegeckofarm]

I agree with all on here and all. I deeply care about my animals reptiles and mammals alike. Yes I breed my leopard geckos and crested geckos but I haven't profited from doing so and many of those don't profit from breeding geckos because you have to buy feeders, buy new geckos for breeding to further your goals if you wish too, build racks or enclosures for them, buy or buy stuff to make your own hides, bowls, etc. it definitely doesn't come to being a cheap hobby at all. Sure there is larger scale breeders that do profit from it but there is many more that don;t than there are of those that do profit. Yes I house my leopard geckos in rack systems and I have noticed them being healthier for it than when I had a few geckos in glass aquariums when I first got into reptiles, I use papertowels as its easier to keep it clean and healthier for them since loose substrate can harbor germs and if you have a gecko thats sick then you will only continue the cycle with loose substrate unless you plan on changing all of the substrate at every cleaning and not just their pooping areas. Also we all know the risk of impaction with loose substrate and therefore papertowel eliminates all possibilities of it. As far as hides as long as it provides them a dark area that they feel safe and secure I dont think it should matter whether it was bought from a store or homemade as long as it serves the purpose of being a hide for the leo and they like it.

As far as culling goes, im with others that if the gecko has defects then it comes down to it being able to survive to live a healthy life without suffering, I have culled animals due to them suffering and all my efforts to get them well did not work. I much rather house a pet-quality gecko in a home that will be kept as a pet only than culling it anyday but if its suffering i would cull it, i don't like seeing animals suffer as i dont like seeing humans suffering as well. i have pet geckos, one with a small or missing eye and underbite shes going to my mom and i have a hatchling that hatched prematurely if it survives it will be going to a pet only home as well, and i have a couple of others that i dont think will be fitting into the breeding quality catagory and if they survive with my efforts to feed them and care for them then they will be placed into pet only homes as well.

Going about bashing people you don't know isn't right, I don't think this forum would be in existence if the people here didn't care about their animals. everyone has their own way of taking care of their geckos and as long as the geckos are fed, fat and healthy then they must be doing something right.

 

[ILoveGeckos14]

Everyone has made the points about how tubs can actually be better(and I agree) and I used to think tubs were cruel until I saw how much better the geckos thrive in there. BUT I can see how the OP could get frustrated. How many people do things for their own convenience and not the geckos? Are mealworms the best food for leopard geckos? probably not, but they are the cheapest and easiest to breed so there you go. Should geckos be housed separately? Ideally yes but many people house them together to save room and money. Should that female that is 6-7 months and ovulating be bred? It will shorten her life but most wouldn't wait until the following year. You want to keep them in a glass tank with a natural set-up because it looks nice? Well the ambient temps aren't good in the tank and that's why they spend most their time in the hide vs. out and about like they are in the tubs.
People do a lot of stuff for their own convenience that doesn't necessarily benefit the geckos but it is a give and take. What one person sees as acceptable, another will not. I just agree to disagree on certain things and if its that big of a discrepancy in husbandry then I don't buy from the person. Or I express my opinion and let the person do with it what they will because there's really not much else you can do.

Culling happens in every breeding program. How do you think they got the cat and dog breeds we have today? Because they let the mutts that didn't fit the breeding program survive? Nope. They aggressively culled anything that didn't fit the breed standard. Which means they weren't just killing malformed animals, or genetic defects, they were killing anything that didn't look like what they wanted. This culling thing can be far more extensive than many people practice in this hobby. You want something more naturalistic for your geckos....there is nothing more naturalistic than removing a malformed gecko, that's nature in the fullest. And like Tony mentioned, it is a responsibility of the breeder to do so to protect our(the communities) breeding stock.

 

[CallDr]

I I recently read a post on how to kill a gecko using a 'small, round, hard object' just because it 'may be sick'.

First of I don't think it was really fair to the poster to doubt her attempts to get all the help she could on what was a very suffering animal. She mentioned it was a holiday and her Vet was not working.

As to killing the Gecko quickly and painlessly Vs putting it in the freezer or drowning it....... well, thats just happens to be how I would do it seeing I have had 40 years experience in having ( at times) to end the suffering quickly.

I think you got the Love and facts backwards on that one.

Second..... tanks vs tubs or racks. It's already been proven that a rack system ( if kept properly ) is healthy for Gecko's. Yes, it's a clinical and controlled environment. Non the less it provides a system in order to house and breed many animals.

Three...... The Hobby and Business. Welcome to the real world kid. I can say that because I have 3 of my own over 30 and 5 grandkids.

Last...... there is no such thing as a perfect forum where you can "get your fix" of Gecko lovers like yourself ( or your view point or perspective).

Having said all that...... I think your heart is in the right place.

 

[CallDr]

It may be helpful to remember that leos are not mammals, but reptiles, and that fact makes a big difference in what they "like" in a housing situation. Don't anthropomorphize them into mammals and expect them to need the same things. They're not, and they don't.

Great point! It's the hard thing called a "learning curve". Even myself who has a profession dealing with wildlife for over 25 years had to start from scratch.

I remember when I started my recording project ( of birds, mammals... wildlife ect ) I started a new learning curve. I remember going into a professional studio and talked about "what I had read" and his reply was........... you have just enough knowledge to be dangerous!

My suggestion is if you really want to "learn" more about Gecko's is do more study and not as much time on forums. Like it or not, when you took on the responsibility of the care of the animal ( what you wanted as a pet ) you got more than you so called "bargained for". It not not what we do or think......

I have 2 quotes that has helped me in life...... "chew up the meat and spit out the bones" and "don't throw the baby out with the bath water".

 

[goReptiles]

I do agree that the tubs suck, but if you really think about it, they're great. As you've read here, some geckos thrive better in tubs than in tanks. Besides being easy and convenient for people, they serve every need of the reptile.

If you really look at it, the tubs that fit average sized racks have about the same surface space, sometimes more, to a 10 gallon tank.

The OP uses a 10 gallon tank it looked like from the picture, with a near minimalistic setup, which is quite similar to tubs. His setup is virtually no different than a breeder's setup, except he doesn't plan on breeding.

What is funny is that the OP ops to criticize breeders for creating quality and healthy geckos in tubs, yet he purchased a pet store reptile. Although the gecko looked to be in good shape and health, on average pet store reptiles aren't.

If you believe that your setup works for you, just stick with it. Always keep an open mind for something different because no one way is the absolute only way, but if it works for you, keep it. If you don't like how others set up their geckos, then don't implement that method. One cannot criticize keepers who have raised and cared for the species for many, many years, when the OP himself has only minimal experience.

Don't let it bother you guys. He's just starting crap, IMO.

 

[fallen_angel]

This isn't a rant or a rave, it should be in the 'general discussion' section where it belongs. But it's okay that Mr. Mod Squad moved me into the 'rants and raves' section, he is probably just an overbreeder trying to hide my post from others. See, you are excusing these acts because it's "easier to clean". That is for the benefit of yourself and not the geckos. It doesn't make them safer. Ooh and HAHA at the "step of my high horse". I'm trying to make a point here and educate others in hopes that it makes them realize that leopard geckos don't belong in poor living conditions. And yes, I have explored many possibilites. Hands down, it's not right to keep these animals like this without any natural stimulation.

It just amazes me that I am continually bashed because I am trying to help these animals. I think everyone on these forums should be on my side, but once again many of you are very ignorant which is sad.

A few things here. Firstly, it's absurd to think that your thread was moved to be hidden, your comments are emotionally based as others have said (not based on facts), making this thread perfect for rants and raves. That isn't hard to comprehend, now is it?

Secondly, your views are extreme at best. The reason that you have so many people stepping up "against you" (or to bash you as you like to say) is because they are trying to explain to you their views, you aren't seeing both sides before forming your opinion. That's why Kasey said get off of your high horse, you need to step down, take a step back and actually look at the issues from all sides. Extremist views are nothing but closed-minded, one-sided ignorance at best.

 

[csdelisle]

I'd like to mention that my leo was in that tub because I had to transport her 130 miles across new england. I think it's very unfair the treatment I've been given because I have expressed my opinion in hopes that some people realize that geckos enjoy a natural habitat. If you guys really cared about your geckos, you would agree with me that it is only fair if they have a good life. Yeah I feel safe and comfortable in my home, but I wouldn't want to be confined to my home for the rest of my life. I can't even deal with these forums anymore, because I do see two sides but the other side is just filled with excuses. "They don't care about a natural setup" "Plastic is easy to clean" "Paper towels are lightweight and easily replaced". C'mon now...

 

[Riyo]

I'd like to mention that my leo was in that tub because I had to transport her 130 miles across new england. I think it's very unfair the treatment I've been given because I have expressed my opinion in hopes that some people realize that geckos enjoy a natural habitat. If you guys really cared about your geckos, you would agree with me that it is only fair if they have a good life. Yeah I feel safe and comfortable in my home, but I wouldn't want to be confined to my home for the rest of my life. I can't even deal with these forums anymore, because I do see two sides but the other side is just filled with excuses. "They don't care about a natural setup" "Plastic is easy to clean" "Paper towels are lightweight and easily replaced". C'mon now...

Oh, my. You think you have been treated unfairly? People have politely stated their opinions and point of views here, while you came here guns a-blazin' and attacking (and alienating) a good majority of the forum. We have just as much right to express our opinion as you do.

You have repeatedly ignored all questions posed to you, as well as all the information given. All you have to say is "If you really loved your gecko.." and "you should all agree with me.." You have also failed to provide any facts what so ever.

You know, I'd hate to be confined to my home, too. But humans are: Nomadic, highly intelligent mammals. Our behavior is a polar opposite to that of leopard geckos. Leopard geckos, along with many other reptiles, prefer to hide and stay hidden until necessary (food, water, mating, thermoregulation). Reptiles don't expend a lot of energy, it is unwise for them to do so. Their metabolism is so slow compared to ours.

What research have you done on reptilian anatomy and physiology? How long have you been keeping them and studying them? How do you know your gecko is any happier than any one else's here?

Emotions are not reasons -- please listen to what some of us have to say and stop the attacks. You may learn something!

 

[Tony C]

The OP is on vacation, and I am locking this thread until things cool down.