Does age always matter to you guys?

[Dinosaur!]

Not in gecko terms, but in human. I feel like alot of leopard gecko breeders, or reptile people in general (no one on here! you guys are too nice to discriminate! ) tend to not trust what i say because i am only sixteen years old. For example, i was at an expo, and a vendor didnt want to sell to me, and was talking down to me as if i was four, and didnt know what i was talking about. I even showed him pictures of my leopard geckos and my cage set ups to prove that they were in good health and hands, but he still chose to treat me as if i was a small child, so i took my money elsewhere. I am not an irresponsible person (although i acknowledge that A LOT of teenagers are). My mother even made a rule that if I dont provide the money for food, enclosures, vet visits, etc., i don't get to have my reptiles. Plus I take months to research pets before i adopt a new species, and even still I stalk this forum to learn as much as i can about leos I also only try to give responses to questions only if i have personal experience, or have researched the topic im responding to so that i dont accidentally give someone bad advice.
So, in all, would you guys on here, especially the breeders, ever refuse to sell an animal to a teenager if you can tell that they are well educated and responsible? Or would you discredit any advice given by someone as young as me, even though the information is most likely correct? Or even refuse to puchase an animal i bred simply because i am not an adult? I have been curious on this matter for a while, and any responses are greatly appreciated

 

[favrielle]

I would be uncomfortable selling to you simply because as a minor, you're not legally responsible for your side of the transaction the same way that an adult would be. But I still wouldn't be condescending to you like that breeder apparently was. That's just poor business practice, and bad manners besides. I also still remember what it was like to be 16, actually know what I was talking about, and have adults ignore me, belittle me, or be condescending to me, so I just wouldn't do it.

As for advice, I've seen just as many 20+ yo adults give bad advice about reptiles as I have teenagers, probably more, actually. Ignorance and closed-minded-know-it-all-ness knows no age restrictions. So advise away, if you know what you're talking about.


The only issue I've ever seen with some younger (<20yo) keepers is an attitude of defensiveness about their age, and a quickness to assume the worst in interactions that contain even the slightest amount of criticism or suggestions of a need for more research. If someone's suggesting you're inexperienced and need to read more, sometimes it has nothing to do with your age, and everything to do with the fact that you're inexperienced about the topic and need to read more! (That's the general "you," btw, not the personal you; I'm talking about experiences I've seen online with younger keepers in general...)

 

[Dinosaur!]

well i completely understand all of the above reasons And it drives me crazy when people get all defensive! especially when they ask a question, decide they dont like the answers they got, and then get mad at the people who took the time out of their lives to answer the question!

as for the transaction thing, thats why i have my mother help me order things onlline (i give her the money in cash, and then she pays online for me), and also why i prefer expos and reptile stores that take straight cash from me instead of online payments or etc. for reptiles

 

[LoganElvin]

You're in the same boat as me! I'm 17 and during classes il secretly open Iguana, ball python, leopard gecko, eyelash gecko, burmese python, and bearded dragon books behind another textbook and highlight and read. I always do as much research but tend to be on gecko forums at least 90 times a day just looking at new posts and updated ones. I even went through 39 pages straight of Before and After pics just because I had never seen some morphs! -Cheers

 

[LoganElvin]

I use a debit card but I always use my own money unless I need my mom to run a quick mealworm or cricket restock from ++++++++ (usually 100 for $4.95 ish) But I pay her back that weekend.

 

[acpart]

I have vended at a reptile show where one of the rules was that we couldn't sell to anyone under 18 without a parent or guardian present. Outside of that, I have no problem dealing with anyone who presents themselves as honest, and knowledgeable, or at least realistic in terms of what they do and don't know. I have found people of all ages to be a pleasure or a pain to deal with, though fortunately, the pains are pretty rare. I do find that annoying people at different ages do tend to be annoying in different ways.

Aliza

 

[Dinosaur!]

haha! i do the same exact things! thats funny! i carry around alot of gecko books in my bag, and read them in every spare minute i have! (even if i did read the book 50 times already ) i actually went through every thread in the health and medications forum, and breeding forums, and am now on the morphs and genetics forum! its interesting to go back to the beggining and see things such as the leopard gecko community becoming aware of the enigma syndrome i even saw a very old thread somewhere where someone (dont remember which forum though! ugh! ) was excited because the new enigma(?) or some other morph was on SALE for just over a thousand dollars or so!

 

[Dinosaur!]

Aliza-

that rule is also at my local expos, and my reptile store but at the reptile store you need to have a guardian present no matter what your buying. but the owner has known me since before i could walk, and the employees and i know eachother, and keep eachother updated on our reptiles and current projects and such when ever i come in . they even know me so well, that when one of my snakes was refusing to eat, they took her in and nursed her back for me at no charge! i really enjoy that store (even if they don't label the different strains of albino :main_rolleyes but my mom doesnt like coming in because it is very hot inside, so they just look out the window to see if she is outside when i go to buy things from them. ahhhhh... the advantages of knowing store owners for 16 years

 

[LoganElvin]

Right? I found out so much about the Enigma gene and studied for a solid 20 minutes just to get every ounce of knowledge about it in. I read the same books over and over it gets ridicuouls to the point my parents ask "Werent your eading that a month ago?" And il show them the page with little notes, highlights, stars, the whole thing, and there like.. carry on.

 

[Dinosaur!]

im almost like that, except that i am super protective of my books, and only write anything in them if a teacher instructed me to do so but i love my leos so much that i want to learn everything i can so that they can live fat, long, healthy lives. so if that means re-reading a book fifty times, reading about others mistakes and successes for hours, or displaying my own mistakes on the internet to ask for help, i am happy to do it for them.

 

[Tongue Flicker]

It's about your sense of responsibility, knowledge of the craft and experience not your age. My parents gave me my first venomous snake when i was 11 as gift (more like punishment, but we'll get to that later lol) for my gradeschool graduation coz they know i can handle it (not literally).


P.S. There is no shame in bringing a parent to get something for you in times like this. Make them feel involved and that you trust them also and you're not hiding anything from them. - with that said, just let them do the paying and not the talking lol

 

[DrCarrotTail]

I agree with everyone else. Legally age does matter as you can't have a contract with a minor and so you technically can't sell a gecko to them unless a parent or guardian is present. Other than that I've met many young folks that are more responsible, professional and knowledgeable than many adults I've talked to. Its all a matter of mental maturity, experience and a willingness to listen and learn

 

[Olympus]

When I worked at a pet store we were never allowed to sell anything alive to anyone under 18 years old for liability issues. It's possible that breeders at shows follow that logic as well, so that an hour later you're not back at their table with your angry parents, who are demanding they refund your money because you're not allowed to bring home any new pets. They can't possibly know everything about you, so they play it safe instead of risking the wrath of parents later.

When I work a table at Repticon or Daytona I certainly don't trust teenagers (which is unfair, I get it, but it's true.) For one, I doubt they have the resources needed to care for and maintain something expensive and complicated like a chameleon, which may require a couple hundred dollars for the vet at the first sign of trouble. I see it all the time on my own blog, I get dozens of emails from people who say things like "I can't go to the vet, I don't drive yet and my parents don't want to help" or "I can't afford to go to the vet, my parents don't want to help." I can't possibly know if you've got a job and are financially capable, so to err on the side of caution I am very likely to avoid selling to a minor unless I know them personally.

It's not personal!

But on some level I do understand how you feel. I get a lot of unfair judgement at reptile shows because I'm blonde, pretty, and usually go to these things in a dress. Everyone assumes I'm the poor girlfriend that got dragged to this thing, so I get a lot of condescendingly simple questions, like "look, this is a gecko, isn't it cute?" I get treated like an idiot quite often. They can't possibly know that I'm a biologist, have been keeping exotic reptiles personally for 7 years, and have worked with exotic wildlife of all types for 15 and in four different countries.

 

[Elgreco]

My girlfriend wants a chameleon so bad. I refuse because they can be a pain to keep.

 

[Dinosaur!]

i completely agree with every reason people have said i make sure to keep my mother involved, so she gets attatched to the geckos, and is willing to drive me to our new reptile vet (i found one that works literally around the corner! they just started treating exotics six months ago or so! ) she thinks that the geckos are cute, and likes to hold my big, lazy, girls.

And Olympus, i completely understand how you feel about the teenagers (even if i am one! ) I used to breed rosy boa constricters up until my girl was too old and is became infertile (she is currently 34 years old, and my male is 15 years), and every baby that i rehomed to a teenager, or a family member ended up dying for a stupid reason such as, and i quote my aunt "I didnt think that snakes needed water!" or from a kid who i sold one to, " I didnt know that (live, ++++ size) rat would attack my (juvinile) boa!" so i understand completely on being cautious. But what if, say, someone showed you actual proof of proper husbandry (their current geckos, how they house, feed, etc.) and you felt that they were responsible enough to purchase? I know that unless a person, no matter what age, can prove to me that they can take care of a gecko, im not selling to them. This is because i want any hatchlings that i produce to be taken care of and live fat spoiled lives

and thank you everyone for your responses!

 

[stager]

Some young people can be hard to deal with but I try to remember what I was like at that age, but you don't fall into that group I would not have even known you weer young unless I read this

 

[Olympus]

Autumn, you're right that if you showed up at my table with photos I'd be much more likely to trust you. I might still be hesitant if at least one parent wasn't with you, just to make sure that I still don't get their wrath later (just because you have, say 20, at home well cared for doesn't mean your parents will be happy with another one or two!) But if I could see your set-ups and such, yea, I'd probably be impressed enough to trust you.

And Alex, chameleons aren't so bad, they're just a lot more involved than geckos. But set them up correctly and 90% of the work is done for you. Then it's just a matter of feeding and watering.

 

[Dinosaur!]

Stager- thank you very much! i try not to sound or act like a "normal" teenager, because terrible grammer and writing skills make me wonder if those kids even went to elementary school...

Olympus- I carry a phone around with pictures of all my reptiles and their setups, just in case a vendor doesnt believe me about my geckos or their health. And my mom or dad is always with me at shows, even if my mom is very counter productive to breeding projects :main_rolleyes: Whenever i go looking for a certain morph for a project im planning, lets say a new supersnow, she goes to the next table over and finds an adorable gecko that is the wrong strain of albino, or a tang, and complains when i dont buy those for my projects, even though their genetics arent going to help me at all. its actuallly pretty amusing to some of the vendors apparently! Highly doubt that i willl ever see anyone from here at my expo though... its kind of a small expo :main_laugh:

but regardless, thank you all for your replies! this is really helping me understand other peoples point of veiw

 

[stager]

Stager- thank you very much! i try not to sound or act like a "normal" teenager, because terrible grammer and writing skills make me wonder if those kids even went to elementary school...

Hey I'm an adult with bad grammer and worse spelling. It's actually not your grammer or spelling it's the fact that you actually listen to people and do research on your own. Some young people ask for advice than do what ever they want anyway even if its crossing albinos. Fortunately for people like that I also knew everything at that age and didn't listen to anyone so I have patients.

 

[Dinosaur!]

Oh trust me, your spelling and grammer are about thirty thousand times better then the people i was thinking of I'm thinking of the people who use text speak on state wide essays, and don't understand why they had points deducted for grammer and spelling. I see that waaayyyy to much nowadays. My ten year old cousin's school even ALLOWS them to write like that! :main_no: She showed me an essay that she recieved 100% on, where she had used "lol", "u", "omg", and no punctuation except for a random period. this shows why Nevada is ranked 51st on national education boards (washington DC beat us!). its rather sad...

and then these people go out and buy reptiles without thinking about researching, and thats when you see ads on craigslist like this one i found yesterday (i would post the link but it was flagged and deleted) they had ONE 20 gallon, tropically themed tank they were selling which contained, and i quote, "2 jackson chameleons, 2 skunk geckos, 2 leopard geckos, 1 whites tree frog, 1 milk snake, 1 white spotted gecko, 1 golden gecko, and 1 tokay gecko" this made my day very sad yesterday when i saw all of those skinny animals with stuck shed on them... and housed with really bad cagemates... oh and the guy was like thirty years old, so you would think that he would realize that that wasn't right, or at least that the emaciated animals would clue him in.