Dubia breeding attempt

[Kotori]

So in my search for something only slightly harder than superworms and mealworms, I saw roaches. I have only a slight eww factor, and after I saw the nutritional comparison, I really wanted to get them. My parents didn't much care for the idea, but I won; as long as I keep them in this cold room.

The tub I'm planning on keeping them in is roughly 8 inches wide by 12 inches long by 16 inches tall. I cut out a 6 inch square and replaced it with window screen, and fo heating I'm using a 150 watt black bulb. I managed to get a hold of egg crates for more surface area. For food I'm planning to use a cheap dog food or a dog food/ wheat bran mix. Water supplied via water gel, with vegetables periodically. I'm planning to sort first by hand, then by the bucket method if my colony grows.


I'm going to start out with 200 'small' nymphs, so there probably won't be an update until they grow,which will be about December, unless I have die-off. I'm planning for this to be a guide for anyone wanting to try breeding roaches, or at the very least, a journal so I see what I've done wrong.

 

[scm133]

Just be sure your tub is slick, because the nymphs can crawl up a rough plastic tub. You can run a strip of clear packing tape around the top inside of the tub, just for precaution. if they do scale up the sides of the tub, they will not be able to hang on to the slick tape.

 

[BadKelpie]

Sounds like a good plan. Don't forget to give them fruit too, they love fruit.

 

[Pinky81]

It will take FAR longer then December if you start with Small Nymphs!! You may not get breeders till next summer if that!! I suggest you just invest in 50-75 breeder females and go with 1 male to every 5-10 females. You colony will be producing within the month. Nymphs start out as extra small-small-medium-large-sub adult- then they finally molt into Breeding adults, this process can take months.

Also ditch the dog food as most have only around 28% protein. Purina One Naturals Cat Food (which is still low cost) has 38% protein. Veggies and Fruit need to be daily while trying to get the colony breeding full steam ahead, you should also include anything else in the house left over...mine are very fond of stale bread.

Also if you keep your dubia in a cold room it will take even longer. They need temps of 90degrees to breed at a steady rate. You won't get that from a black light as most heat flows up. Better off doing a heat mat under the rubbermaid tub...so that you can trap the heat in the tub thus getting your 90 degrees breeding temps.

200 small nymph with a top heat source you will be lucky to get breeder sized roaches in a year.

They are SUPER easy to care for and breed once they have gotten established! Good Luck!

 

[chrisherp]

So in my search for something only slightly harder than superworms and mealworms, I saw roaches. I have only a slight eww factor, and after I saw the nutritional comparison, I really wanted to get them. My parents didn't much care for the idea, but I won; as long as I keep them in this cold room.

The tub I'm planning on keeping them in is roughly 8 inches wide by 12 inches long by 16 inches tall. I cut out a 6 inch square and replaced it with window screen, and fo heating I'm using a 150 watt black bulb. I managed to get a hold of egg crates for more surface area. For food I'm planning to use a cheap dog food or a dog food/ wheat bran mix. Water supplied via water gel, with vegetables periodically. I'm planning to sort first by hand, then by the bucket method if my colony grows.


I'm going to start out with 200 'small' nymphs, so there probably won't be an update until they grow,which will be about December, unless I have die-off. I'm planning for this to be a guide for anyone wanting to try breeding roaches, or at the very least, a journal so I see what I've done wrong.

Steer away from feeding cat or dog food to the roaches. It is equivalent to feeding it to your gecko. Lower priced cat food is not even healthy for cats. I have a cat and will never feed her purina products:main_thumbsdown:

You can buy things like grains, oats, fish meal and natural bee pollen.

 

[Pinky81]

Never had any issues with this brand. It actually has not artificial flavors or preservatives and a high protein content. Thats why I like this particular on the best..its not cheap cheap but not out of this world expensive. And have had no issues with the health of my leo's either, balance this food with fresh fruits, veggies, and starches I think its a fairly price efficient option. I have also had a cat and fed this cat food and she is still extremely healthy and fit...so to each their own i guess.

 

[reps4life]

I hate to pry but I think I know the reason dog and cat food is not recommended unless quality is considered which will be too expensive just to feed roaches. It boils down to highly digestable protein. I won't get into all those details because what I am about to mention is more important.

There is a reason why some vets suggest feeding "stinky crickets":main_evilgrin: more often than other insects. Roaches are very high in protein which according to my reptiles vet have been linked to severe hepatic lipidosis. So it would be wise to feed very small amounts and not used as a stable feeder.

Phoenix worms is the most recommended, but It seems some just have a hard time seeing them, I guess.

 

[T-ReXx]

I recommend using Repashy Bug Burger. It's both a food and water source, roaches love it, and it's very well balanced. As stated cat and dog food aren't the best gutload products. I feed bug burger and oranges exclusively.

I also disagree about not using roaches as a staple. Crickets are notorious parasite vectors(pinworms). Any feeder insect is going to be mostly made up of the diet they are fed. High protein levels are absolutely necessary for isectivorous/carnivorous reptiles. In the case of an omnivore, like a Beardie for example, I could see the danger. However insects should only make up a minor part of those species' diets anyways.

I also would ditch the lamp, it's highly inefficient. Use a heat pad. Go with a bigger tub and get adult roaches. As stated, nymphs are going to take forever to grow out. Breeding dubia is not exactly rocket science; keep em warm, dark and humid, feed em well, and they will produce. Sorting is something I do as needed or when I need to setup another colony, rarely is necessary. They are also horrible climbers, even nymphs can't handle plastic that is remotely slick. I wouldn't worry too much about escapes.

 

[reps4life]

I recommend using Repashy Bug Burger. It's both a food and water source, roaches love it, and it's very well balanced. As stated cat and dog food aren't the best gutload products. I feed bug burger and oranges exclusively.

I also disagree about not using roaches as a staple. Crickets are notorious parasite vectors(pinworms). Any feeder insect is going to be mostly made up of the diet they are fed. High protein levels are absolutely necessary for isectivorous/carnivorous reptiles. In the case of an omnivore, like a Beardie for example, I could see the danger. However insects should only make up a minor part of those species' diets anyways.

I also would ditch the lamp, it's highly inefficient. Use a heat pad. Go with a bigger tub and get adult roaches. As stated, nymphs are going to take forever to grow out. Breeding dubia is not exactly rocket science; keep em warm, dark and humid, feed em well, and they will produce. Sorting is something I do as needed or when I need to setup another colony, rarely is necessary. They are also horrible climbers, even nymphs can't handle plastic that is remotely slick. I wouldn't worry too much about escapes.

I would not mention anything I was not confident about. The protein content recommended for carnivores 18-20%. The percent of protein in roaches is over 30%.
I am definately aware of crickets being notorious for parasites. I began breeding my own. I feed at least 3 different insects a week. I don't have a stable.

 

[im faster]

There is a chameleon breeder local for us that sells dino fuel a KILLER food for them..

aldo feed oranges once they are adults to stimulate breeding..
got to keep there temps up so they will want to breed..


and its gonna be a long while before small nymphs get big enough

 

[chrisherp]

Never had any issues with this brand. It actually has not artificial flavors or preservatives and a high protein content. Thats why I like this particular on the best..its not cheap cheap but not out of this world expensive. And have had no issues with the health of my leo's either, balance this food with fresh fruits, veggies, and starches I think its a fairly price efficient option. I have also had a cat and fed this cat food and she is still extremely healthy and fit...so to each their own i guess.

Oh, my...I so sorry. I did not mean to make a thread out of a thread
Someone was partially correct with my concern. Basically it's best to steer away from corn products which is not a good source of protein. It would require twice the amount fed to obtain the amounts in real meat. Meat as a first ingredient is always best. At least know you have been provided with different sources

 

[Kotori]

I know lights are very inefficient, but the store near us charges insane amounts for a small heat pad...I'll be able to get a heat mat after christmas. The tub's walls are slick, and I'm hoping to move the tub to a warmer room after awhile. The bulb I got gets hotter than 110 degrees near it, s if I hang it only 1in off the tub, the uppermost egg crates should be aout 90, though it will quickly drop. when it gets warm I could keep them outside...What temp is deadly to these guys?

I thought that roaches needed 20% protein?

 

[T-ReXx]

You might want to consider just picking up a human grade heat pad. If you use the ones without an auto off setting they work fine in an emergency/short term.

Over 100-110 they'll start to die and under 65ish they'll die. Anything below 80ish and they will stop breeding completely.

Yes roaches need high protein, I believe the 30% was in reference to the protein content of the roaches themselves.

 

[Desdemona]

Good tips in this thread, I just wanted to second the oranges and the dark. I had a problem with mine breeding until I got smart and put them in a closet where it was always dark. Then they went mad and I had nymphs out of the wazoo.

You can also order pretty decently priced heat pads online. You could go for a smaller heating pad if you needed too and just buy a second later when you had the money. Then if one dies you'll still have the other, so a little bit of a bonus. Also.. just like reptiles you need a hot and cool side to the enclosure. That way the roaches can modify their own temps as they see fit. From what I've read Dubai's are one of the easiest feeders there are care wise. They dont' need constant cleaning (like crickets) and they will breed without the best environments at times too. I thought my colony was going to take a hit when I was in the midst of moving because they were without a heating pad and in a open room for a week (only dark at night). I still had the same nymph count as always. I'm sure if I went longer than a week though I'd see a decline.

Also, when you do get babies.. make sure you leave a few behind on occasion to keep your colony going. Find a friend with a big lizard or a spider/tarantula to give your unwanted males too

If you order from The Roach Guy or someone similar online they'll send you a whole kit to include screen, food, egg crates, gel crystals (which I stopped using), and a mix of nymphs and adults for a good starter colony.

 

[Pinky81]

+1 to Tosha! Temps and darkness is key!! I know a lot of ppl on here use human heating pads, get one where you can turn off the auto off function. I use a 66qt rubbermaid tub with a piece of screening hot glued to the cover. I have a 10-20gal UTH under one end of my tub with the food and water on the cool side. i fit about 5 egg crates standing vertical so the frass (poop) falls to the floor of the tub. You actually shouldn't clean your tubs too often as the micro mini nymphs will also utilize the frass on the bottom of the tub.

the protien content was referring to the amount of protein in the cat/dog food. I have my self NEVER heard of dubia as a staple being a bad thing. Also I myself am not too concerned with my dubia eating "meat" as I doubt that they get large amounts of actual meat in the wild, but more less eating plant matter, other bugs and insects who's composition is also made up of the things they eat. Point being we could dig down and break up the composition of these bugs and what they eat...but honestly for myself I kinda like to not make things too much harder then they have to be. The only thing I am a stickler on is buying my bugs only ORGANIC fruits and veggies, too much waxes and pesticides and what not on the other items.

Good luck with your colony!

 

[reps4life]

So in my search for something only slightly harder than superworms and mealworms, I saw roaches. I have only a slight eww factor, and after I saw the nutritional comparison, I really wanted to get them. My parents didn't much care for the idea, but I won; as long as I keep them in this cold room.

The tub I'm planning on keeping them in is roughly 8 inches wide by 12 inches long by 16 inches tall. I cut out a 6 inch square and replaced it with window screen, and fo heating I'm using a 150 watt black bulb. I managed to get a hold of egg crates for more surface area. For food I'm planning to use a cheap dog food or a dog food/ wheat bran mix. Water supplied via water gel, with vegetables periodically. I'm planning to sort first by hand, then by the bucket method if my colony grows.


I'm going to start out with 200 'small' nymphs, so there probably won't be an update until they grow,which will be about December, unless I have die-off. I'm planning for this to be a guide for anyone wanting to try breeding roaches, or at the very least, a journal so I see what I've done wrong.

I wanted to clarify what I meant. In reality nothing fed in excess is good and why I do not believe in a stable insect.

The recommended % of protein for carnivores is 18-20%. Once again roaches= 30% and above protein. I am not saying they should not be fed because I feed them as well but minimal amounts would be wise.

When protein is fed in excess it has longterm consequences like hyperuricemia in uricotelic reptiles which leads to visceral gout and so on.
That is how protein pockets develop (excess) the tail is overloaded.
That is why if you look at a product for ex: Oxbow carnivore care it's high in protein to aid in healing during time of illness but it's only to be given for a short time to prevent long term consequences.

I hope this helps to make everyone understand and I just want the best for our reptiles.

 

[grboxa]

I wanted to clarify what I meant. In reality nothing fed in excess is good and why I do not believe in a stable insect.

The recommended % of protein for carnivores is 18-20%. Once again roaches= 30% and above protein. I am not saying they should not be fed because I feed them as well but minimal amounts would be wise.

When protein is fed in excess it has longterm consequences like hyperuricemia in uricotelic reptiles which leads to visceral gout and so on.
That is how protein pockets develop (excess) the tail is overloaded.
That is why if you look at a product for ex: Oxbow carnivore care it's high in protein to aid in healing during time of illness but it's only to be given for a short time to prevent long term consequences.

I hope this helps to make everyone understand and I just want the best for our reptiles.

+1:main_thumbsup:

 

[chrisherp]

I guess they can be fed lower protein foods as suggested here if anyone is interested in reading.

http://www.store.repashy.com/can-feeder-insect-diets-contribute-to-gout-in-reptiles.html

 

[im faster]

Yes i purchased a gecko that was fed only dubias and it had gout.

 

[chrisherp]

Yes i purchased a gecko that was fed only dubias and it had gout.

So sad, Im sorry.