Dubia breeding attempt

[chrisherp]

Is this gecko alive? Gout is so painful in humans I can only imagine how terrible it must be on such a small lizard. I have read how much people detest crickets, but as far as I know they are the best diet for geckos.

 

[OhioGecko]

Interesting thread....

I would debate that the gut load that was used for the dubias caused the gout and not the dubia. I know of instances where the gut load for crickets caused gout in Leopard Geckos, not the crickets.

We use multiple feeders worms, crickets and roaches. There are many successful breeders that use strictly crickets, worms or roaches as a staple. I'm sure this topic could be argued from all points of view. I don't think there are rights and wrongs here but there are several factors that come into play. The insect, gutloading and hygiene. How do you measure if one gecko is healthier than the other? And not all geckos are created equal? Some lines of geckos are weaker and don't thrive as well as others lines.

It would be a huge undertaking to find what feeders are the best with equal animals and how you would measure the results. Heck, we can't even agree what the best diet it is for humans

I do enjoy this thread and look forward to more input.

 

[chrisherp]

Interesting thread....

I would debate that the gut load that was used for the dubias caused the gout and not the dubia. I know of instances where the gut load for crickets caused gout in Leopard Geckos, not the crickets.

We use multiple feeders worms, crickets and roaches. There are many successful breeders that use strictly crickets, worms or roaches as a staple. I'm sure this topic could be argued from all points of view. I don't think there are rights and wrongs here but there are several factors that come into play. The insect, gutloading and hygiene. How do you measure if one gecko is healthier than the other? And not all geckos are created equal? Some lines of geckos are weaker and don't thrive as well as others lines.

It would be a huge undertaking to find what feeders are the best with equal animals and how you would measure the results. Heck, we can't even agree what the best diet it is for humans

I do enjoy this thread and look forward to more input.

It's so difficult to achieve the right balance and there is just not enough information available. As far as I have read it's clear that lower protein food is healthier in the long run. I try to focus on the effects it contributes to the organs. A reptile fed lower fat and protein under good conditions will live longer than one who is what they called "power fed"; a miconception is that a bigger gecko is healthier than a thinner one. IMO
Good thing is this is why we have forums so that everyone can continue to contribute information. I have faith one day we will all come to a better understanding.:main_yes:

 

[OhioGecko]

It's so difficult to achieve the right balance and there is just not enough information available. As far as I have read it's clear that lower protein food is healthier in the long run. I try to focus on the effects it contributes to the organs. A reptile fed lower fat and protein under good conditions will live longer than one who is what they called "power fed"; a miconception is that a bigger gecko is healthier than a thinner one. IMO
Good thing is this is why we have forums so that everyone can continue to contribute information. I have faith one day we will all come to a better understanding.:main_yes:

I did leave out one factor "moderation". You can find two breeders that feed the same diet with the same gut load, but one breeders geckos are a lot bigger than the others. Moderation

From a personal experience we feed our breeders 1/3 more than usual one season. They were a lot bigger than the previous season but they laid 1/2 as many eggs. We went back to our regular feeding and the females laid their normal/average clutches the next two seasons.

 

[gecko4245]

Interesting thread....

I would debate that the gut load that was used for the dubias caused the gout and not the dubia. I know of instances where the gut load for crickets caused gout in Leopard Geckos, not the crickets.

We use multiple feeders worms, crickets and roaches. There are many successful breeders that use strictly crickets, worms or roaches as a staple. I'm sure this topic could be argued from all points of view. I don't think there are rights and wrongs here but there are several factors that come into play. The insect, gutloading and hygiene. How do you measure if one gecko is healthier than the other? And not all geckos are created equal? Some lines of geckos are weaker and don't thrive as well as others lines.

It would be a huge undertaking to find what feeders are the best with equal animals and how you would measure the results. Heck, we can't even agree what the best diet it is for humans

I do enjoy this thread and look forward to more input.

I saw this and it reminded me of what the vet told me. She said many owners do not know there reptiles are dehydrated and the high protein steels the water from the body. of course she said things in a more educated way, but my dictionary is not that big she said that a larger reptile needs more protein than a little one. I am a pain in her rear asking alot of questions but I try. So she told me crickets are one of the best to gutload and have less fat.
believe me I hate those stinky little buggers too but I care about what's best for them so I deal with it. She said that the best thing to do is feed this to the crickets and they will not need to be dusted.

http://shop.mazuri.com/mazurihi-cacricketdiet.aspx

She said that it's not good to try and make your own because it does not have the right balance. I hope this helps some

 

[grboxa]

^+1 im stopping silkworms as a staple just because of the the high protien, they have been drinking more water...further backs up that no feeder should be a staple.

 

[gecko4245]

One more thing I forgot to add. another reason she said the crickets were better is cause they give more water to your leo than worms because they drink more water since leos rely more on there prey for water. She likes a diet more of crickets and phoenix worms and some silkworms.

 

[OnlineGeckos]

Interesting discussion, I'm glad I read this thread. Thanks for all the information, especially that article by repashy. Stuff like this you just can't find anywhere, and googling dubia roaches up you still find all sorts of sites recommending heavy protein gutload. Most people that don't read forums will never really get the good info we're reading here.

 

[chrisherp]

Interesting discussion, I'm glad I read this thread. Thanks for all the information, especially that article by repashy. Stuff like this you just can't find anywhere, and googling dubia roaches up you still find all sorts of sites recommending heavy protein gutload. Most people that don't read forums will never really get the good info we're reading here.

I don't feel I should take the credit. If anything thank reps4life who brought up the subject. Without her comment I would have probably not looked into the subject.

 

[Desdemona]

I am with OhioGecko in that our understanding of human nutrition is lacking a lot more than most Drs or the Federal Government will admit too. We can try our best with Leos of course, but your still going to find the gecko who did great off of Dubias and the one who did horrible. Just like you find a person who lived a long life as a Vegan and another who almost died from the diet. You can insert other human diets into the "vegan" term.

They eat variety in the wild so I give mine that in captivity. I think they get enough variety for me to omit crickets. Mealies, Supers, baby hornworms, silkworms, dubia, and reptiworms. If someone comes up with another non-stinky/hoppy feeder I will add it as well. I might start buying crickets as occasional treats though... ie gutload them and feed them all off the next day. I should have enough reptiles to do that now.

 

[jermh1]

My two cents
I have around 30k breeders 5/1 f to m ratio
and many thousands of nymphs, I go through a $25 50lb bag of dog food in just under 2 months paying $4 a lb + shipping would be out of the question, the only way to get close to the dog food price is to buy a small commercial mill to grind and mix my own food, which I almost did. I have tried a few Dog and cat foods and found Retriever brand Hi protein from tractor supply is the best, and grinding it helps too, but now that I am up to such a quantity I don’t even grind it any more. I used to provide oranges too; I would go through 30lbs of oranges a week if I kept that up. Now I just gut load the ones I am feeding to the geckos with oranges and carrots.

I am a biology teacher and I can tell you apart from gut content roach proteins are roach proteins regardless whether they consumed lobster, caviar or feces

So far all my geckos are doing good

As far a starting to breed I would plan for the long term and go for 1000 smalls or med and raise them, keep them hot and well fed, be careful of mites!!! Sex out most of the males at around ½ to ¾ in so you should get 500F 100M then feed off the other 400M. It will take around 6months to get a good reliable breeding colony. And when feeding don’t forget the 6 month lag time to get breeders.
For selecting breeders from your feeding stock I recommend picking out your fastest growers, I take out 50 or so every time I feed (1-2 times a week).
you can look through my posts to see some of my roach setups.

 

[jermh1]

I guess that was more like my $2.00

 

[im faster]

So far all my geckos are doing good

Good thing your not an English teacher. :-D

 

[jermh1]

my spelling is so bad I don’t even look at grammar, I just ignore the green underlines in word.

 

[Kotori]

Okay, so if I fed Dubia and Mealworms would that be safe? I got my roaches and they don't look as creepy as I thought.

 

[madrv]

I fed those dubias and my little guy couldn't poop for 3 weeks, never again!