dubia roaches And florida Laws?

[snakegirl]

I live in warm south Florida, Am looking in to getting a few Dubia roaches for my reptiles, But when shopping for them online for the best price. i noticed some sites will not ship them to Florida? so i Found this very odd, Before buying i wanted to make sure it was even allowed in the state of FL. I could not find anything on (Florida wild life site) only a bit about hissers being ban. I came across someone stating....


*Dubia roaches are Legal in the state of FL. however the seller your getting them from Must be in FL or has to have paper's saying he is allowed to ship to FL (If its out of state)...But Sale and keeping Dubia is legal in the state of FL*

Now i found this even more odd, So more research... and i found another person saying there Ban in Florida Along with many other kinds of roaches, In fact many sites stated that.


Then i asked a top site that sells Dubia roaches, they said Yes its Legal you can have them shipped and kept in FL.

I want to know what does everyone else think about this, Anyone else live in FL and know the laws?

 

[JordanAng420]

Where's Nigel??? This is his field!

LOL. Anyway, from my understanding as a fellow South Floridian (hey neighbor ) is that B.discoidalis and B.craniifer are the only legal species of roaches in FL....I'm pretty sure B.Dubia's are not, since Nigel has a strict policy about not sending them over our way....

Gotta love our warm weather. ANYTHING can reproduce and take residence in this environment. :main_rolleyes:

 

[snakegirl]

thank you Jordan for the help, Am looking in to Discoidalis.

 

[JordanAng420]

You are very welcome.

 

[clear]

Dubias are illegal to own in FL, all species except Discoids and Craniifers are illegal in FL except hissers that require a permit.

 

[Nigel4less]

Where's Nigel??? This is his field!

LOL. Anyway, from my understanding as a fellow South Floridian (hey neighbor ) is that B.discoidalis and B.craniifer are the only legal species of roaches in FL....I'm pretty sure B.Dubia's are not, since Nigel has a strict policy about not sending them over our way....

Gotta love our warm weather. ANYTHING can reproduce and take residence in this environment. :main_rolleyes:

Even people? LOL, but anyways Maia hit the Nail on the head

 

[JordanAng420]

Yes, especailly people. One of our biggest "overpopulation" issues.

 

[TMF]

I know they have already answered the question but just wanted to confirm their answer. After about 27 phone calls starting with Florida Fish and Wildlife and weeks of browsing the internet I finally found someone who could answer my question. Blaberus discoidales (Discoids) A.K.A "False Death Heads" and Blaberus Craniifer (Death Head), are the only legal roaches allowed in Florida (other than the Madagascar Hissing Cockroach that requires a permit). There is no permit required for breeding and/or selling these feeders in or out of state.


Edit: Just incase anyone else is curios. No Permit is required to breed/sell meal worms or super worms in Florida either.

Hope this helped.

 

[Paco]

I know they have already answered the question but just wanted to confirm their answer. After about 27 phone calls starting with Florida Fish and Wildlife and weeks of browsing the internet I finally found someone who could answer my question. Blaberus discoidales (Discoids) A.K.A "False Death Heads" and Blaberus Craniifer (Death Head), are the only legal roaches allowed in Florida (other than the Madagascar Hissing Cockroach that requires a permit). There is no permit required for breeding and/or selling these feeders in or out of state.


Edit: Just incase anyone else is curios. No Permit is required to breed/sell meal worms or super worms in Florida either.

Hope this helped.

I would like to know who you spoke to because they misinformed you.

The info is correct on Supers and Meals but not correct on the Roaches. There are permits required for SELLING ALL roach species. Permits May not required on a hobbyist level, but I am sure they are as well. It's all about money.

I spoke directly to Wayne Wehling at the USDA/APHIS office to get the direct scoop. This is the National office people, the ones who make real decisions. States do have a say( They control and regulate Interstate permits) but this group is the major decision makers.

Transporting and or selling ANY LIVE insects that are not already approved, Which not 1 roach species is at this current time, requires a PPQ 526 permit for Import/Export and Intrastate commerce. You must list every species that you work with and want to sell. The only way you can get this permit is if you have a Legit Business location, that can be inspected by the agency at any time during reasonable hours.

I was told that most states below the 32 or 36 parallel will not allow most species, but you need to go thru the permit process thru the USDA/APHIS then apply for permits thru each individual state, to see which states will allow what species. Very Long and lengthy process.

I am finding it very interesting reading what everyone else has to say, and how different the response's are.

If any body needs more info fell free to contact me and I can get you sent in the right direction.

 

[Paco]

For those that do not know who to do detailed web research. Which is very obvious from an e-mail I got from another GF member saying I am full of it from what I posted in my last reply, here you go.

I just don't post because I want to(without doing my homework), I post with hardcore facts, not hearsay. I should have posted the links in my last reply so there could be no doubt.

So you all will know know what the Federal Laws are and those need to be followed first. Also so you don't have to listen to the misinformed others that are out there. You get the written Facts directly from the Federal Agency in Charge.

First link is from a cool insect site I found.
http://www.insectnet.com/usda.htm

This directly from usda/aphis site:
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/organism/index.shtml

So to whoever wrote me, don't ever call me a lier without knowing what you are talking about. You want to step up to me in a debate you better be prepared and have your ducks in row(which obviously you don't by writing me and calling me a lier and having no idea what you are talking about).

 

[clear]

I would like to know who you spoke to because they misinformed you.

The info is correct on Supers and Meals but not correct on the Roaches. There are permits required for SELLING ALL roach species. Permits May not required on a hobbyist level, but I am sure they are as well. It's all about money.

I spoke directly to Wayne Wehling at the USDA/APHIS office to get the direct scoop. This is the National office people, the ones who make real decisions. States do have a say( They control and regulate Interstate permits) but this group is the major decision makers.

Transporting and or selling ANY LIVE insects that are not already approved, Which not 1 roach species is at this current time, requires a PPQ 526 permit for Import/Export and Intrastate commerce. You must list every species that you work with and want to sell. The only way you can get this permit is if you have a Legit Business location, that can be inspected by the agency at any time during reasonable hours.

I was told that most states below the 32 or 36 parallel will not allow most species, but you need to go thru the permit process thru the USDA/APHIS then apply for permits thru each individual state, to see which states will allow what species. Very Long and lengthy process.

I am finding it very interesting reading what everyone else has to say, and how different the response's are.

If any body needs more info fell free to contact me and I can get you sent in the right direction.

And your information is correct at the Federal standpoint. No there is no FEDERAL laws making species of roaches illegal in Florida. The state of Florida has its on State laws that make roaches ILLEGAL. If you want the contact information of the agriculture department of Florida and who to ask. I will gladly give that to you. States have the rights to govern there own state.

 

[Paco]

And your information is correct at the Federal standpoint. No there is no FEDERAL laws making species of roaches illegal in Florida. The state of Florida has its on State laws that make roaches ILLEGAL. If you want the contact information of the agriculture department of Florida and who to ask. I will gladly give that to you. States have the rights to govern there own state.

Cear... I never said they were Illeagal. I said you need the proper Federal permits to sell and transport them. As well as whatever the state requires as well.

Look at my last post at the links. Individual states do have rights to govern themselves and intrastate commerce. But we are talking about Interstate commerce and thats when the Feds are involved.

States must obey federal laws first.

Federal Laws superceed all state laws. I live and Cali and know this all to well.

Plus without the proper Federal Permits, talking to any individual state about their regulations would make no difference. You are supposed to do all that thru the UDSA. After you file PPQ 526 thru them, they file with each individual state for you and each state has their own rules and regulations and approval process. As i said before a very long and lengthy process.

 

[clear]

I will make this simple.

YOU CAN NOT OWN/SHIP/TRANSPORT OR EVEN HAVE dubia in Florida. Please do the proper research. There is only one type of permit allowed in Florida for roaches, and that is for Hissers. No other roach has permits.

If you do not believe me, contact them yourself. http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/

 

[Paco]

Clear... Never said anything about owing Dubia in Fla. Where did that come from???? I am not confused about the issue.

The issue I brought up is the Federal Permits required to Transport OUT and sell Roaches In other ANY STATE Which is required by the Federal Govt. USDA/APHIS.

If you are just shipping within the state you reside don't need the PPQ526.

I could care less about Fla. Regulations because I am not a resident. They don't mean a thing if you don't have the proper Federal permits and live else where.

 

[clear]

This is the main point of this thread.

Also the permit PPQ526 is for Bacteria, Fungi, Nematodes, Phytoplasmas, and Viruses.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/organism/plant_pathogens.shtml

I live in warm south Florida, Am looking in to getting a few Dubia roaches for my reptiles, But when shopping for them online for the best price. i noticed some sites will not ship them to Florida? so i Found this very odd, Before buying i wanted to make sure it was even allowed in the state of FL. I could not find anything on (Florida wild life site) only a bit about hissers being ban. I came across someone stating....


*Dubia roaches are Legal in the state of FL. however the seller your getting them from Must be in FL or has to have paper's saying he is allowed to ship to FL (If its out of state)...But Sale and keeping Dubia is legal in the state of FL*

Now i found this even more odd, So more research... and i found another person saying there Ban in Florida Along with many other kinds of roaches, In fact many sites stated that.


Then i asked a top site that sells Dubia roaches, they said Yes its Legal you can have them shipped and kept in FL.

I want to know what does everyone else think about this, Anyone else live in FL and know the laws?

 

[Paco]

This is the main point of this thread.

Also the permit PPQ526 is for Bacteria, Fungi, Nematodes, Phytoplasmas, and Viruses.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/organism/plant_pathogens.shtml

Clear Very true that is the topic. But what many don't realize is the federal permits required. That's my point.

You brought up the wrong permit link. You want the SOIL AND ORGANISMS.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/organism/index.shtml

This is the very First Paragraph on the page:

"Under the authority of the Plant Protection and Honeybee Acts, a Plant Protection and Quarantine (PPQ) 526 permit is required for the importation, interstate movement and environmental release of plant pests (plant feeding insects, mites, snails, slugs, and plant pathogenic bacteria, viruses, fungi, etc.), biological control organisms of plant pests and weeds, bees, parasitic plants and Federally listed noxious weeds."

Scroll down the page the things that require permits are listed. INSECTS is #1


PPQ 526 Permit
The PPQ 526 permit for importation, interstate movement, possession, and/or release into the environment of:

* Insects and Mites (other than Bees, Butterflies and Moths, and Biocontrol Organisms)
* Bees
* Butterflies and Moths
* Biocontrol Organisms
* Plant Pathogenic Bacteria, Viruses, Fungi, Mycoplasms, and Nematodes
* Snails and Slugs
* Federal Noxious Weeds and Parasitic Plants
* Earthworms
* Soil (Use PPQ Form 525-A, Application for Permit to Receive Soil)
* Widely Prevalent Regulated Organisms

 

[Paco]

Clear Very true that is the topic. But what many don't realize is the federal permits required. That's my point.

You brought up the wrong permit link. You want the SOIL AND ORGANISMS.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/permits/organism/index.shtml

This is the very First Paragraph on the page:

"Under the authority of the Plant Protection and Honeybee Acts, a Plant Protection and Quarantine (PPQ) 526 permit is required for the importation, interstate movement and environmental release of plant pests (plant feeding insects, mites, snails, slugs, and plant pathogenic bacteria, viruses, fungi, etc.), biological control organisms of plant pests and weeds, bees, parasitic plants and Federally listed noxious weeds."

Scroll down the page the things that require permits are listed. INSECTS is #1


PPQ 526 Permit
The PPQ 526 permit for importation, interstate movement, possession, and/or release into the environment of:

* Insects and Mites (other than Bees, Butterflies and Moths, and Biocontrol Organisms)
* Bees
* Butterflies and Moths
* Biocontrol Organisms
* Plant Pathogenic Bacteria, Viruses, Fungi, Mycoplasms, and Nematodes
* Snails and Slugs
* Federal Noxious Weeds and Parasitic Plants
* Earthworms
* Soil (Use PPQ Form 525-A, Application for Permit to Receive Soil)
* Widely Prevalent Regulated Organisms

NOTICE the word "POSSESSION" is listed as well.

 

[TMF]

Well after reading paco's post I did some more research. After several phone calls and emails this is what i found out:
Discoid and Deathhead roaches are legal in the state of Florida, Dubia are not.

If you wish to breed/sell these 2 species of roaches in Florida no permit is required as long as you do not ship out of the state. If you wish to ship out of state a permit is required and you can only ship to those who also have a permit. Also, as Paco stated, if you ship out of state, on top of the permit you would need you also have to have a business establishment (not to include your home due to search warrants needed for unannounced inspections) so you can have inspections.

Hope this helped.


Don't think they could have made it any harder to track down the people to talk to about roaches, both federal and state, lol.

 

[Paco]

Well after reading paco's post I did some more research. After several phone calls and emails this is what i found out:
Discoid and Deathhead roaches are legal in the state of Florida, Dubia are not.

If you wish to breed/sell these 2 species of roaches in Florida no permit is required as long as you do not ship out of the state. If you wish to ship out of state a permit is required and you can only ship to those who also have a permit. Also, as Paco stated, if you ship out of state, on top of the permit you would need you also have to have a business establishment (not to include your home due to search warrants needed for unannounced inspections) so you can have inspections.

Hope this helped.


Don't think they could have made it any harder to track down the people to talk to about roaches, both federal and state, lol.

TMF it took me a while to track down all the info as well and several phone calls and e-mails I got what I needed.

I will agree 100% that do not make it easy. I complained about it to USDA/APHIS office. They could not even give me a list of what Species they would and would not accept. They said it was all case by case Basis. So now it's all a waiting game until my permits go through.

The person who E-mailed me and prompted me to post the links Called me a Lier and said I made all the info up just so others would not try to sell and I would be the Lone seller and have no competition. What a JOKE and I hope that guy feels Like DUMB A$$. The Government does not make things easy people. At the State And Certainly not the Federal levels.

 

[Nightshad]

Don't mean to bump an old thread, but this is one of the main google search results concerning the issue of legality of dubias in Florida.

Dubia roaches are extremely illegal in Florida, because they are not a native species, and have no natural predator. This is very serious because Florida is a natural breeding ground for roaches, and with no predators, the population is liable to explode and cause an epidemic of roach infestation.

In 2011, a man was arrested and charged with criminal and felony charges as well as a 1st degree misdemeanor for smuggling in roaches into the state.