Enigma enigma?

[Destiny]

Hello!

I have a question... Of course, everyone knows that leos tend to have very distinct personalities. They all even differ from each other in their flightiness/assertiveness, dom/sub, eager/hesitant.... I have this ONE gecko tho... His name is Varro- he is a Tremper Enigma.... Hes a proven, sassy, very driven breeder.

I wonder about him----- He is so odd. He doesn't have enigma disorder or anything... (occasional circling when feeding time is happening, but that's it) He is SO DOG like, it just fascinates me. He begs for food, begs to come out of his habitat, he is up and prowling around in the day or night- he stares me down and seems to listen to me when I talk to him, and would MUCH rather be tong fed that go chase anything. He just watches whatever (dubia, cricket) run off and then looks at me. He seems to have trained me.

Is this NORMAL? Is it related to the enigma trait? Because he is male? Size? Age? I have never really seen this sort of "cognative" abilities in a gecko before.

Thoughts? Thanks so much!

Destiny
desert snow gecko

 

[DoubleAGeckos]

You might want to try to slowly get him to chase food because if your collection gets bigger then you won't have that much time to hand feed him but if you plan on keeping a small collection then in my opinion you can keep doing it. But as for your question no that's him being used to you

 

[ElapidSVT]

i have 125 leos and hand feed them.
it's not so bad.

my enigmas are most successful at feeding from tongs or a dish; chasing insects is a bit difficult for them as i believe the 'disorder' is a visual perception issue.

 

[Kristi23]

I have a few non-enigma geckos like that. They beg to come out and once they're on me, they're totally relaxed. They also stare at me when I'm talking. One of them loves food so much that she jumps when I open her tub. The other day she sat up on her hind legs like a dog begging. Leos seem to have a lot of personality.

 

[rchase54]

Someone care to fill me in on what "enigma disorder" is?

 

[Destiny]

Enigma syndrome is odd "neurological" type behaviors that enigmas can display to varying degrees at different times in their lives with different stimuli or just randomly- lol.
Like circling, star gazing, licking, shaking- they can also have problems eating ect. These odd behaviors may or may not be due to light sensitivities- and are not fully understood. They seem to be linked more often to enigmas that have only one parent thy is enigma... That's how I understand it at least... If anyone knows more or understands it differently- I would live to learn more.
And- I totally want a prairie dog gecko! You should breed for that trait!!!

 

[lillith]

Actually it is less likely to be severe if there is only one enigma parent. Light sensitivity is more of an albino issue, so unless you have an albino enigma, it's more that the syndrome symptoms seem to be triggered by stressors. They can be environmental, husbandry related, or being handled too much.

I've noticed that when I feed a slightly more fatty diet than is usually recommended, symptoms in some of my enigmas have decreased to manageable levels. It's only anecdotal, but I try to feed waxies about 1/3 more often than I do for everyone else, as well as roaches and supers more than other feeders. I haven't tried silkworms, but I'm curious how that would turn out. I will start hatchlings out handfed, and gradually condition them to eat out of a dish. Currently one of my little enigmas isn't quite catching on that you don't pounce at the hu-man face for food. But once they're in the dish and I'm not distracting him, he knows what to do.

Destiny, good luck with yours, I saw that you have some truly lovely geckos. =)

 

[Destiny]

thanks Lil!
I just added a SSB male and a SSBE femal from Ryan Jarosek. I need to add thier pics and a Super Giant SHTCT Female.

I have a Mack Snow Tremper Enig that ONLY eats what rains out of the sky... To him I am "the great food goddess". LOL

I am so glad I got back into gex.. I had gotten out about 6 years ago.. It was SUCH a thrill when my eggs started hatching and I had a little SS... Lol.. They keep me busy and it is a nice little self sustaining hobby.

 

[rchase54]

Besides the odd behavior, is there any physical signs that its an enigma? Also, what do you mean by star gazing?

 

[DoubleAGeckos]

Star gaze is when it tilts its head odd and stays like that for a period of time I believe

 

[Destiny]

Yes it looks at the "stars" for a long time- randomly. Enigmas have a funny white pink tail and a very intense color pattern, and calico spotting. It's a dominant trait so 50/50 of offspring will have it.

 

[Repkyle]

They look amazing, don't get me wrong. But isn't breeding them frowned apon? Forgive my ignorance but i'v only just starting to learn about different morphs and traits. I'm sure i'v heard it somewhere but i'v also seen so meny enigma spliced morphs. :s

 

[rickmoss95]

some people may not like to breed, or even keep enigmas...i personally have a couple, as do alot of others. like anything else, there will be both negative and possitive opinions on enigmas. i have not been into the leopard geckos for very long at all, but from what i have wittnessed(and a couple close friends feel the same) the enigma syndrome seems to me like an eye or vision issue more than anything else. there are obvioulsy other issues, and it may infact neurological...but i think the spinning and bad "aim" are caused by a vision problem. the twitching however(i have never seen this in person) is probably more neurological. neither of my enigmas show any visible signs of anything odd at all. but the symptoms seem to be brought on by stress as mentioned above. i think there is still alot to learn and figure out about the enigma syndrome.
i will continue to own and even breed enigmas, they are just way to cool for me to give up on them. that being said, i will never sell any enigma that shows any enigma "issues" unless the potential buyer understands what is going on and totally insists on having the animal(and still i will only sell very mild issued animals). i know a few people who breed and sell enigmas, and as long as the buyers are aware of what they are getting, i think the mild issues are nothing to stop someone who wants an amazing gecko. i do hope we can figure this disorder out and elliminate it some day

 

[Destiny]

I can't explain the circling, but I do feel that it seems to be an extreme farshightedness- like they need glasses for close up. Both of my enigmas are albino- so I don't know if it's different for non-albinos... But over stimulation by light makes em act a little strand but not big time or anything. I haven't seen the shaking either. I personally love enigmas. I am certain with selective breeding the enigma syndrome will vanish over time.
I think if anything breeding two enigmas together would be risky- but it's a way to understanding. I agree with Rick- full disclosure is best and they are so beautiful! And My Varro- he really is my baby.

 

[EnigmaEcho]

you gotta love enigmas though- they are special. my girl has terrible aim, and because i dont plan on haveing alot of animals, i can hand feed her as often as she needs. that being said, its only with the meal worms that she needs the help- the crickets she loves to hunt. its just when she needs to be close to get them, she cant see them. other than that, i have come to learn that enigmas, though they require a little extra tlc, are unique and have the best personalities. i couldnt imagin her being anything else.
t
there are ongoing studies being preformed at various labs and breeders in the attempt to findout what it is that makes the ES prevailent, in that they circle durring stress, star gaze, poor aim, etc, and most importantly, how we can help them. i hope that something will come up soon- but just the same, its great that many out there are conscience of both the need to not breed them simply for thier stunning colors and patterns- but are aware of there problems and not out to obliterate the creature but to help them.

 

[EnigmaEcho]

http://www.leopardgeckowiki.com/index.php?title=Enigma

http://gecko.ignominious.org/tess.html

http://www.freewebs.com/grinninggecko/enigmasyndromestudy.htm

 

[justindh1]

The enigma syndrome is a touchy subject for some people. Most of the working with enigmas pretty much agree that the syndrome will never be breed out of the genetics. It's more then just something wrong with the eyes. I have heard that Enigma X Non Enigma doesn't produce any different results then Enigma X Enigma. I have also heard about stories of non-enigma offspring showing signs of the syndrome from Enigma parings. I don't think anyone really knows what is happening with this morph. Besides knowing they have problems, everything else seems more like speculation then anything.

I don't own an enigma but have come close to it. The genetics of the enigmas does throw of some intense looking offspring but to me that's not worth the other characteristics related to the morph. The syndrome always pushes me away in the end. I do wish something could be done but it's too late. Too many are out there with the syndrome now. They should of been worked on before the release to strengthen the original stock if that is/was possible. This is my opinion and you'll find many that differ.

 

[rchase54]

I think one of my leos might be enigma. Cuz she does like to stargaze, and she has horrible aim when going for feeders. Plus she does some really weird things with her body, and likes to scratch at the substrate A LOT.

 

[Destiny]

Rchase54- could you post a picture please?

 

[rchase54]

If I can sign into my photobucket account, yeah. She's also the gecko on the right in my profile picture on here.