Enigma Eyes: What Exactly IS Going On?

[KelliH]

Here are some photos of Enigma eyes and to follow will be some non Enigma eyes to compare to. None of these geckos are albinos.

Enigma Eye #1:

Enigma Eye #2:

Enigma Eye #3:

Enigma Eye #4 (this one is a Patternless Enigma):

Enigma Eye #5 (this one is an Eclipse Enigma):

 

[KelliH]

Non Enigma #1 (Eclipse):

Non Enigma #2:

Non Enigma #3:

I would have taken a few more but my camera battery died. So, as you can see there is a significant difference between normal leopard gecko eyes and Enigma eyes. Doesn't it appear that the Enigma eyes are missing some black pigment? What could the reddish/orangish color on the Enigma eyes be, and do you think it could be related to the fact that there is obviously a reduction in black pigment in their eyes?

I'd love to hear everyone's opinion.

 

[Baoh]

Heterochromia, which could be autosomal dominant.

 

[KelliH]

Heterochromia, which could be autosomal dominant.

Early on I actually thought it could be a type of heterochromia as well, but my guess is still some form of ocular albinism.

 

[Baoh]

In ocular albinism, it is the retina which lacks or has reduced melanin. You cannot see that in a picture. You can see the pupil and the iris. The iris can be any color and it does not matter unless the retina is hypopigmented.

 

[KelliH]

Look at this ones eyes! Almost completely red! He's gorgeous too.

 

[Baoh]

Did not the pathology report from PSGeckos mention no eye abnormalities?

 

[Baoh]

Whatever the case ends up being, they are beautiful.

 

[KelliH]

Hmmm, I'm pretty certain that ocular albinism can cause a reduction of pigmentation of the iris as well.

 

[KelliH]

Whatever the case ends up being, they are beautiful.

Yes, they are beautiful. I am just hoping that we can all work together and find out what exactly makes an Enigma, an Enigma. They have a special place in my heart and I want to know what is going on with them. That's all I've ever wanted to know really.

 

[KelliH]

Did not the pathology report from PSGeckos mention no eye abnormalities?

I believe it did but I am still very interested to see what comes back from the samples I sent. The man I sent them to is a biology professor who specializes in reptile opthamology. There is clearly something up with their eyes and maybe he will be able to determine what that is.

 

[Baoh]

Yes, but it is not characterized by any pigment reduction in the iris. The determinant for the disease is the retinal hypopigmentation. A change in color of the iris can occur from a lack of melanin or a different melanin isoform.

By the way, there are some good deals on opthalmoscopes here

http://www.safehomeproducts.com/shp2/sc/shopexd.aspx?id=256571

and here

http://www.amazon.com/Nose-Throat-O...=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1223281561&sr=8-17

in case you want to check their retinas yourself. Another tool in the toolbox.

 

[Baoh]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/bookshelf/br.fcgi?book=gene&part=x-oa

The above is a great link on the subject. It explains the relevance of the type of hypopigmentation seen in many cases of the disease (where light directed through the pupil will reflect back and pass through the iris) and that this can also occur in a significant percentage of individuals that do not possess the disease.

 

[Baoh]

To add, an entirely new form of ocular albinism may be occurring, still. It's just not the most parsimonious answer at this time.

The disease needs to account for-

Pigmentation abnormality.
Hepatic abnormality including fatty accumulation and/or vacuolization.
Mineralization/calcification abnormality to the point of absence.
Possible neuropathies.
Erythropoietic tissue/marrow abnormality/atrophy.

That's why I have not leaned to the side of an albinism variant thus far. The most parsimonious path will encompass all of the symptoms as downstream players of a single upstream event or disruption/dysregulation.

I am curious as all get out about the protoporphyrin levels and mitochondrial ferrochelatase levels as well as a comparison between the enigmas, non-enigma siblings, and wild types, as comparative research examining the alleles coding for FCH could tell heaps. If this was examined first, too, not a single gecko would necessarily have to lose its life. The mitochondria, blood, and a few tissue samples could be sufficient. Of course, that would take a large number of geckos. If they do get sacrificed, less geckos would need to be examined in order to extract adequate mitochondria.

And don't get me wrong- I don't care if I am incorrect. I just cannot think of anything else at this time that could account for the entire umbrella of symptoms so far observed.

 

[Baoh]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15654982?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

Very interesting and it suggests a rather radical treatment option if FCH/PP is the issue.

 

[Purpleskyes]

My Enigma het bell's eye

he has some amber/gold colouring but not much.

 

[MSMD]

I don't have any kind of educated, breakthrough opinion here, but it is definitely obvious that there is something going on with the eyes on these guys. I find that they are not only clearly different from non-Enigma eyes, but there seems to be a lot more variation among Enigma eyes--even when comparing just the non-albinos. Whatever is going on, they are so unique and just freakin' cool! Great eye shots, Kelli. I would really like to know what, exactly, is going on with these guys, as well. What a cool morph, indeed! :yes:

eta: Kelli, that leo in the last pic you posted is stunning! :2thumbsup: What AMAZING eyes! Do you have any full body shots, just for fun?!

 

[SaSobek]

this eclipse has the orange in the eye and is in not and enigma and I had him before I had any enigmas.
adult pic
View attachment 18315
baby pic
View attachment 18314

IN MY OPPINION I think that the pigmentation in the eye is just that, pigmentation. it can't be an ocular albinism because the B.E.E (Enigma Eclipse) wouldn't have the black pigmentation in the eyes. From what I have seen in the enigmas that I have hatched there is a correlation in the amount of this red/orange pigmentation in the eye and the red/orange on the body. The bell albinos it comes out more on all of them , but None of my Mack snow enigmas have the red/orange in the eye, it dose seam that it is dark instead that is why some mack enigmas hatch out with “solid black eyes”. But taking a closer look they are just dark eyes and not black. On the other hand the Tremper and bell snow enigmas that I have show the red/orange pigmentation in the eye. And in a couple of Tremper snow enigmas they have yellow eyes. (Some people saw that in Daytona) I think that the enigma trait dose have something to do with enhancing color. But it is random when it dose, because in one clutch you can get a awesome looking enigma and a crappy looking one. In the next season we will see if it can be line bred a little.

 

[KelliH]

this eclipse has the orange in the eye and is in not and enigma and I had him before I had any enigmas.

Hmmm, maybe it's an Abysinian. :main_laugh:

The Eclipse eyes are probably not the best examples to show because as we know there is something weird and different going on with those eyes anyway.

I think the red color that you can see in the non Albino Enigma eyes is blood showing through the iris due to the partial lack of pigmentation. I think this lack of pigmentation is variable, and some have a lot of pigment missing (hence the redder eyes) and some don't have much at all. You can really see this in the Patternless Enigma eyes, it looks like about half of the eye is really dark and the other half shows more of the red. It's really striking in that one in particular. The reason Albinos look like they have red eyes, because there is no pigment in the iris and you can see through it. In some forms of ocular albinism there is a reduction of pigment in the iris, rather than a total lack of pigmentation. Of course the Tremper and Bell Enigmas are going to redder eyes: they are albinos. That's cool about the yellow eyed Snow Enigmas though... maybe something else is going on with their eyes? Sounds neat.

 

[KelliH]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15654982?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

Very interesting and it suggests a rather radical treatment option if FCH/PP is the issue.

I just saw this, it is really interesting. I hope it's not FCH/PP.