Enigma prices

[Jeremy Letkey]

Yes there will be less expensive animals, however....

I think that we will also see a boom. Some of the highest priced animals so far.

Think about what the highest priced leopard gecko has sold for before now. Then think about that animal being better, brighter, more (or less pattern) and having a diverse genetic background (a het or homo animal) for many recessive traits. I am very excited for the leopard gecko community right now.


Of course all of this is just my opinion. :main_rolleyes:

 

[trizzypballr]

I def agree with ya Jeremy, I doubt that anyone predicting a price drop owns one, and even if they do think there will be a price drop, they sure arnt going to come on here and tell everyone. Might as well just post a sign on their website, "Just wait 6 months, ill sell them to ya half price" LoL I dont think anyone is that dumb... I personally dont own an enigma, but I am still excited about them and what they bring to the community, and personally hope that the prices dont drop on them at all. After the macks everyone just wants to bash the LG market, the enigmas could help do away with the fear...

 

[SaSobek]

I am one of the people that is predicting a price drop (of the normal enigmas).
and i do own a few.
the reason i say this is because of all the crossing that will be done it will give you some normal by product. i do agree with jeremy that some of the enigmas will have a higher value. i know one that will actualy more then one but every one will have to wait and see them. alot of crossing is being done right now. and i think we will see some of the craziest looking leos next year. actualy i know there will be some killer geckos next year. think of all that we have to work with that is out now.

Super Raptors
Snow enigmas het albino
super enigmas
emerines (i know people think it might be a waist of time but we will see)
enigma het raptors
snow raptors and eclipse
diablo blanco
super blizzard
snow lvpa
SHTCT that albey had at daytona
Radars
the rainwater form of the raptor (im sure is being worked on )
the firewaters
raining red stripes
kelli's electric line
the list goes on and on

and there is new blood coming in and who knows what will "pop" out of that.

next year is so exciting that i cant wait for it to be here. well it is starting.

but i do stick by my thinking that "normal" enigmas will be around $200 but the other part of that is i know there will be enigmas that will go for $3000. so in a way yes the price will go down and yes the price will stay up.

you cant look at enigmas as a single gean, you have to look at it as what can it be crossed with.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Yes there will be less expensive animals, however....

I think that we will also see a boom. Some of the highest priced animals so far.

Think about what the highest priced leopard gecko has sold for before now. Then think about that animal being better, brighter, more (or less pattern) and having a diverse genetic background (a het or homo animal) for many recessive traits. I am very excited for the leopard gecko community right now.

Of course all of this is just my opinion. :main_rolleyes:

Well said, Jeremy... something I happen to agree with!

 

[lytlesnake]

I haven't been doing this nearly as long as most of you, so my thoughts are only based on what I've observed over the last few years. There do seem to be periodic price drops on new morphs, so one might think it's logical to assume that enigmas will follow a similar pattern. However, as others have pointed out, the potential variation the enigma gene brings to the table makes it somewhat different. So many possibilities! So I'd rather not speculate as to what they will cost next year, but I don't think they'll drop anywhere near what some people are predicting in this thread.

 

[paulnj]

I personally want to see a $4000 enigma cross, but unfortunately I won't be making it.

 

[DAWNoftheLEO]

Well said, Jeremy... something I happen to agree with!

:main_yes:

 

[Baysidegeckos]

but i do stick by my thinking that "normal" enigmas will be around $200 but the other part of that is i know there will be enigmas that will go for $3000. so in a way yes the price will go down and yes the price will stay up.

you cant look at enigmas as a single gean, you have to look at it as what can it be crossed with.

I think the same thing

 

[gaparicio]

Just as most have said, I think they'll go down in price come next year as well. All new morphs have to come down whether we like it or not.

Personally, I think the enigmas are the least attractive geckos of all the morphs out there but because it's the NEW thing, everyone wants one. I remember years ago when regular blizzards, patternless and trempers commanded big bucks and everyone was dying to get their hands on them. Now you see them in petstores everywhere.

At the other end of the spectrum, I always look forward to seeing what new morphs or crosses breeders come out with from time to time.

 

[thaveteran]

Just as most have said, I think they'll go down in price come next year as well. All new morphs have to come down whether we like it or not.

Personally, I think the enigmas are the least attractive geckos of all the morphs out there but because it's the NEW thing, everyone wants one.

I agree with them not looking all that good BUT the crosses are why everyone wants one and I personally feel that of the few crosses I've seen they have alot of potential. Some look amazing!

The price thing......I think people are nuts. There is NO WAY they fall to 200 hundred bucks next year. They will drop but not that much! One can hope tho.

 

[supperl]

Well personally I don´t own an Enigma and I´m hoping for a price drop as I would love to own an nice normal one. Why should I lie about it.

The thing is I like the normal ones which I would like to own one but I don´t want to spend $2000 so I will just wait. And I asked because you have more knowledge than me about price drops.

I think we must do a classification between normal Enigmas or Enigma het xyz and the breathtaking morph combos that will come out with the time.
I mean the MSB Enigma is only the tip of the of the iceberg I would say.
Enigma has much potential and Jeremy is right when he says that Engima crosses will make the highes prices ever seen for Leos.
But I´m mostlikely talking about normals or maybe hets. And these are not that hard to produce and I think won´t hold their prices too long on around $1000 or so.
But to say one thing, it´s not only the point cause ppl hope on drops and don´t want to pay that much or can pay that much it has also to do with ppl selling the Geckos for that price.
It´s the principle of free market economy which earlier than later will let the prices drop.
The big breeders work on holding the prices, whta is understandable but there are ppl that, and I´m 100% sure on this, will think like that:

1 male Enigma het Bell * 20 Bell females
8 clutches each so around 160 Egnimas and 50% are Enigma Bells which I will sell for $200-$500 which is ~ $16.000 - $40.000


I know it´s a too simple calculation but I´m sure ppl are thinking like that or do you think all that own male Enigmas think like "I´m breeding them two 3 females cause I want to sell not too much"?
I think everyone wants to earn with that morph and so that thinking is only normal i would say.

Don´t understand me wrong, I know you deserve the price for your work and you have paid much for your breeders but in the end the normal Enigmas or hets are sooo easy to produce that they won´t hold their price.
Think of an Enigma male that came from an Enigma X Enigma crossing which turns out to be a homozygot Enigma. Pairing this one with Albino/Blizzard/patty/normal and so on females will bring 100% Enigmas.
I´m sure there are many male Enigmas sitting every evening with another female to produce many Enigmas and that will drop the price.

Correct me if I´m wrong I´m not that long in the Leoaprdgecko scene but I would say that even this scene has to deal will the principle of free market economy of am I wrong?

 

[lytlesnake]

But what's the point in producing 160 enigmas and selling them cheap when you could make the same money from a much smaller number of animals? Overproduction leads to an imbalance in supply and demand. If production is limited, demand remains high and prices remain stable. It's simple economics.

 

[supperl]

Yeah that may be but you forget the point of "Making the fast buck"

It´s no Problem in producing them and I think you can sell more then 160 over all the US Expos over the whole year or am i wrong?

So why shouldn´t one produce many Enigmas to sell them for 300-500 or so and making a good Buck.
I mean you´ve paid good money for your breeders abnd you want to make money with them(thats the way it is when you live from it).
So you may get the thoughts "If I don´t do it someone else will do it and than I´m sitting on my expensive offsprings cause someone else made the deal"
And to say one thing, You can earn more money with 160 cheap Enigmas than with for example 24 Enigmas when you only breed the male to 3 female.
Everyone it hot on the morph so it won´t be a problem on seeling many of them I think.

I don´t say it´s okay but I´m sure that is the way it may work.

I mean even if 99% of the Enigma breeders don´t breed that much, 1 % does it the other way and maybe get the deal cause of his price.
No one can tell me that if he can decide between 2 Enigmas which are same quality that they would choose the one for $1500 when the other is $300.
And I think there are ppl who know that and that count on it.
I can´t prov it maybe I´m totaly wrong and no one breeds them on this extreme but you must say it is absolutely possible that there are ppl with this thinking.

Well I think time will tell.

 

[lytlesnake]

This reminds of the guy I heard about who is trying to mass produce albino fat tails. 400-500 fat tails in the breeding program... what's the objective?

This way of thinking that says "Someone else is gonna beat me to the punch, I better breed tons of these things and sell 'em cheap" is a panicked, non-thoughtful approach. If economists thought like this we'd all be in trouble. Well, the U.S. dollar is in trouble, but that's another story.

Patience is the key. If you're not in a rush to sell your stock, there is no reason to drop your prices to ridiculous levels. The old adage is "quality vs. quantity". I personally see no logic in overproducing a high end product to the point of devaluation. Why would a person who spent $5,000 on a pair of breeder animals want to see them instantly drop in price to 10% or 20% of what they paid? It just doesn't make sense!

 

[supperl]

Well there is a market for Enigmas.
And Yeah a producer of High end products wants the price to be steady.
Problem is you can buy a high end Musicbox made in Germany or you can buy one for 1/4 of the price from china.
You can buy a VW Gold 5 for around 20.000€ or you can buy a chinese car which is nearly the sam quality for under 10.000€.
Fact is Enigmas are nor ferraries where you have only one producer.
Enigmas are more like something where the patent ran out and everyone can produce them(not only a few ppl).

I Mean look into your PC most of it is made in china or Japan nearly nothing from US and why? Cause they are able to produce mass off them cheap and they are running good with it I would say.
I mean you would make a real good buck with selling many Enigmas or am I wrong. If that is okay and fair to all other breeders which payed much for their Enigmas is another thing.

Well but as said time will tell the price and we´ll see what will come^^.

 

[ataber]

why would someone produce 160 enigmas and sell them for 200-500? why would they not sell them for the market price or just shy of that? Selling for 200-500 would put the enigmas into a downward spriral as far as prices IMO. The higher end crosses would hold for a few years maybe after that drop on the normals but after so long they would end up just the same as the normals if someone decides they're going to produce 160 crossed enigmas and sell them for cheap.

 

[lytlesnake]

I think it's safe to say at this point that anyone who owns an enigma paid a good amount for it. Therefore, I don't foresee a single person out there who is looking to sell them for a couple hundred bucks.

 

[PrototypeGeckos]

I think it's safe to say at this point that anyone who owns an enigma paid a good amount for it. Therefore, I don't foresee a single person out there who is looking to sell them for a couple hundred bucks.

I personally think all this talk of how the "Enigma prices are going to drop" helps it happen. I know inevitabely the prices will indeed drop some, but I think alot of people see all this talk and think "I'll wait until prices drop to purchase mine", causing a lack of interest somewhat in the Enigmas, therefore prices do drop to rebuild that interest. I think this is part of the reason of the Snow price drop. Just a thought. I say let the market take its course.

 

[trizzypballr]

I personally think all this talk of how the "Enigma prices are going to drop" helps it happen. I know inevitabely the prices will indeed drop some, but I think alot of people see all this talk and think "I'll wait until prices drop to purchase mine", causing a lack of interest somewhat in the Enigmas, therefore prices do drop to rebuild that interest. I think this is part of the reason of the Snow price drop. Just a thought. I say let the market take its course.

LoL exactly what I said earlier... Not about Enigmas loosing peoples interest, but everything else is almost word for word. lol

 

[lytlesnake]

I personally think all this talk of how the "Enigma prices are going to drop" helps it happen. I know inevitabely the prices will indeed drop some, but I think alot of people see all this talk and think "I'll wait until prices drop to purchase mine", causing a lack of interest somewhat in the Enigmas, therefore prices do drop to rebuild that interest. I think this is part of the reason of the Snow price drop. Just a thought. I say let the market take its course.

I didn't start this thread, nor have I quoted any lowball prices or made any predictions.