Extreme purging

[Northstar Herp]

I've been loving Fe's sticky on genetics and the Muddy Waters discussion, and it reminded me of a story that shocked me when I heard it. Assuming it's true (it's possible it's not, this is the internet), I wonder if anyone would take a similar line of thought in our leo breeding-

There is a rare breed of herding and hunting dog from the southern states that is known for it's intelligence and working ability. It's not the norm, but some of the breeders raise all their pups to two years before they will sell them. All the pups are trained to work, and the ones that can't are euthanized. It's their way of making sure the breed holds a high percentage of workability.


I'm one of those newbies benefiting from the genetics sticky, but I wonder if there is anybody out there who would take such a hard line to say that the wide wide world of leos would be better off if the "mutts" aka- het for everything, had been put down when they didn't express?

I know a little more about carpet pythons than I do leos, but it's a case in point. I see tons of "jag siblings" being sold, which are just regular carpets, many times produced from an attempt to get a jungle yellow jag out of a coastal jungle cross. Well, now it's hard to tell whether a snake is coastal or jungle, and improbable that there are many pure jungles in the states. Would it have been better for the "jag siblings" to have been put down, rather than to muddy the waters?

Don't kick me off the forum... I'm not advocating, just wondering if anybody takes that hard of a line.

 

[BalloonzForU]

I've actualy thought about what to do with all the mutt off spring that I will produce from trying to clean up my lines and have even thought about culling. Most likely I will go with selling them as "Pet Only" with a written agreement.

In line with the dogs.... We have a braque du bourbonnais (french pointer), have had her for about a year now and we sill don't own her. The reason for this is that she has to pass a natural ability for hunting test before we can have her papers, if she doesn't pass we have to get her fixed so she can not have puppies.

 

[erik]

It's an interesting discussion. When it comes to canines, it seems to me that neutering would be a far better option than just killing them off. Talking about Reptiles, it is of course a different situation.

I still wonder though why you would require agreements on keeping an animal from breeding. Could you explain that Fe? Maybe I am missing out on certain factology.

All in all, do you think that we have lost grips on just keeping an animal for its beauty and company in our strive to create the best, healthiest, most beautiful, most spectacular kind of animal?

 

[Northstar Herp]

It's an interesting discussion. When it comes to canines, it seems to me that neutering would be a far better option than just killing them off. Talking about Reptiles, it is of course a different situation.

I still wonder though why you would require agreements on keeping an animal from breeding. Could you explain that Fe? Maybe I am missing out on certain factology.

All in all, do you think that we have lost grips on just keeping an animal for its beauty and company in our strive to create the best, healthiest, most beautiful, most spectacular kind of animal?

I totally agree, canines are different. You can't neuter a reptile, I think...

The problem, I think, is that Fe will be creating more of the animals she is trying to avoid in order to find the ones she would like to produce. I'm a thorough newbie to the leo world, but plan on breeding for the first time this year. I think I know what I have, but if they come out wierd then I'm either gonna keep them as pets and not breed them, or give them to my nieces and nephews who will never breed them. Then I will be more selective in my purchases in the future.

I don't know what I would do in a REAL breeders position. They must produce more undesirables (in their minds) than desirables.

 

[acpart]

This is a really interesting topic to me, not so much about the decision whether or not to cull, but more along the lines of other "uses" for these animals. The posts I've read so far have been confusing as to exactly what kind of animals we're talking about. They've been labeled as "het for everything", "not what someone was breeding for" and "weird looking"; I don't mean this at all as a criticism -- it's just hard to tell what we're talking about. I see a difference between appearance and genetics. An animal may have an interesting and pleasing appearance (or an unusual and "weird" one) but not the genetics that were anticipated. An example of this would be my Mack Snow x Tremper producing some nice, but non-snow, pastel tangs. On the other hand, an animal could look kind of "blah" but have some good genetics: my PRS male has gotten a lot more pattern and lost his red coloring, but he produces some really nice tangs.

It seems to me that a gecko with the genetics and without the looks may be useful for a project that requires those genetics. A gecko with the looks and not the genetics may be a potential for line breeding, and a gecko with neither the looks nor the genetics could be a good candidate for outcrossing.

In my own breeding projects I am facing something similar: some of my Mack snows are turning a disappointing yellow/gray color. In their case, I'd say they have the genetics but not the looks. I'm hopeful people will be interested in buying them, if not as a nice pet, as a source of Mack genes for a good price. Still, I'm thinking a lot about next season and whether there's any way I can reduce the number of unsatisfactory (in terms of looks, not health or personality) animals.

ALiza