First eye problems, now shed problems... advice?

[alliemackie]

Hey folks, been here awhile, rarely post, but an issue has come up with my 3-year-old leo female.

First off: I have a herp vet, and I have already seen him once within the week (details below) and will call him in the morning if things aren't better and you guys feel I should.

So... starting from the beginning.

My leo shed about a week and a half ago. She's been shedding more frequently recently, as she's been getting weight back on after a particularly long winter fast. She's eating well (all mealworms currently) and has shed perfectly every time, until the most recent one.

She got some stuck shed on her tail and both of her eyes. I gave it a day or two at my vet's suggestion, gave her ten-minute warm baths each day which got rid of the tail shed and even a bit of toe shed. I also gave her drops of saline several times a day to see if it would get out on its own, and it didn't. So off to the vet we went.

He removed a bit of shed from her left eye and a more prominent bit of shed from her right eye. Both eyes had prominently swollen eyelids, but no redness or swelling of the eyes themselves. The eyes are both in good shape, now clear, but her eyelid swelling has not gone down. You can see in the photo that they're still quite swollen.

Photo:

So, fast forward to now, just over a week later. I'm still giving her drops twice a day at the vet's suggestion, but her eyelids are still swollen as before and she still favours to keep them closed. They will pop open to hunt for worms I've put in the tank, but otherwise closed.

I got home from work today to find her in the middle of a shed again, just like so:

I tried giving her the eyedrops as usual, but she's not responding well to being held very well and I don't know if stressing her is a good idea when she's literally mid-shed.

More concerning to me is that she won't go into her humid hide. Usually, when I see she's blue and provide her with her humid hide, she goes in immediately and gets the job done. I placed her in front of it and she went in, but just sat in there for awhile, came back out, and is sitting in the open in a rested pose. Seems like she has no desire to shed. I wonder if her eyelids are giving her discomfort - she's not opening her eyes right now, so perhaps she can't see either. She's trying to open her eyes but seems to have difficulty, as she's been having all week.

I want to leave her in the quiet and dark overnight to see if she sheds, but I'd rather not leave it too long, I don't want another bad shed. I'll also try a warm bath if you guys think it will help. I'm guessing her eyes still being off has something to do with this.

So, any insight? Why are her eyelids still swollen? Could this be causing her lack of desire to shed? Any other ways I can entice her to go through her regular shedding process? As I mentioned above, I will likely be calling the vet again in the morning but I would love to hear your perspectives as well.

Sorry I wrote a novel. I hope the details help.

EDIT: The proper details based on the questionnaire thing:

About your leo:
- Sex:F emale
- Age & Weight: 3 years old, 54-ish grams according to vet
- How long have you owned your leo: Since she was about 4 months.
- Where was he/she obtained: Reptile Expo, from Port Credit Pets

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo: A short period of time on most days. She tolerates handling well, but is mostly left alone.
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now: She has been a bit more lethargic in the past week and a half due to vision problems mentioned, but she has fine movement and is still hunting fine. Now that she's shedding, she's displaying the normal slower movement and grumpiness associated with it.
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe: She had a fast over the winter in which she dropped a chunk of weight, but has recovered fine and has been perfectly fine since mid-January.
B) Fecals
- Describe: No different from normal. Solid, same colours as always.
- When was the last time he/she went: She went when I gave her drops earlier today.
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on: The whole fiasco's been a week and a half, shedding issue started today.

Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size: 10 gallons
- Type:Glass tank
- Type of substrate: Repti-carpet
- Hides, how many, what kind: Two, one low cool hide made of Lego and one plastic container humid hide on hot side. Humid hide is usually replaced with Exo-terra cave hide during non-shed times.
B) Heating
- Heat source: Heat lamp & UTH
- Cage temps: Hot - ~90F Cold - ~80F. temps go down just a few degrees at night.
- Method of regulating heat source: None has been needed.
- What are you using to measure your temps: Thermometers on both sides of tank, plus a ground thermometer for the UTH.
- Do you have any lights: No. Has a day lamp until August or so. Lights in the surrounding room are not bright.
C) Cage mates
None

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
Mealworms, sometimes given in a mealworm dish, sometimes given one by one by tweezers until eaten. She has periodically had waxworms, butterworms, and crickets, but not recently.
B) Supplements (describe how often)
Insects are dusted with Flukers non-D3 calcium, she also has the same calcium available to her at all times in the enclosure.
Mealworms live in Flukers Mealworm Bedding, given slices of potato for moisture.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

 

[katie_]

Looks to me like she got the shed off her face pretty well.

 

[alliemackie]

Looks to me like she got the shed off her face pretty well.

I wish. The shed just hadn't loosened on her face yet. It's now starting to loosen around her face and still no eating-shed action on her part. I tried giving her another warm bath, but it seemed to disorient and upset her more than anything, so I made the decision to let her be overnight and hope she somehow decided to git 'r done. I really hope. Ugh. I won't sleep tonight, worrying about her.

 

[justinadavid1104]

you can use q tips while giving her a warm bath to get skin off

 

[Josh P.]

Warm baths have really helped with the problematic sheds on my geckos.

 

[justinadavid1104]

also, get a plastic tupperware container with a lid, poke 15 air holes at the top, with a paper towel that is soaking wet, put your gecko in and put it directly over the heat pad and take your gecko out in 20-25 mins even if some shed remains it would be very very easy to pull offf because i is moist

 

[mango+cola]

roll it off with a Q-tip, don't pull it off because you could damage the new skin underneath. If you can't roll it with a Q-tip it isnt ready to come off.

 

[katie_]

I dont see anythign wrong with this picture. Shes shedding.
If I were you I'd leave her alone and see if she'll do it herself.
Baths, and q tips and poking and proding are only going to stress her out. You may help her only if its needed ex: stuck shed on toes or eyelids.

 

[GeckoCrossing]

I agree. She looks fine. What eye drops are you using exactly? A better eye shot would help clear up what we're supposed to be seeing. I can kind of see a dark kind of build up or something in the first photo, but can't really make it out.

 

[OhioGecko]

Something is keeping her from going in her moist hide which she use to go into. I have a couple of questions.

1. What are you using for a substrate in the moist hide?
2. When was the last time you changed the substrate?
3. Where do you place your moist hide at, cool end or hot spot.
4. How much area of the tank does your UTH take up, 10%, 20% 50%?

Suggestions:
1. Get your hot spot temp up to 95, there are many benefits to this.
2. Leave your moist hide in at all times 1/2 on the UTH and 1/2 off. The gecko will burrow in it and move to the temps it needs.

 

[alliemackie]

Thanks for the tips, folks!

I dont see anythign wrong with this picture. Shes shedding.
If I were you I'd leave her alone and see if she'll do it herself.
Baths, and q tips and poking and proding are only going to stress her out. You may help her only if its needed ex: stuck shed on toes or eyelids.

I certainly agree in not stressing her if I don't have to, but how long do I leave her that way? She has her humid hide, but won't go in it even though her entire skin is now white. I could theoretically pull the entire thing off her at this point (I wouldn't) and she still hasn't started the process herself. She's been this way since yesterday morning. :/

I agree. She looks fine. What eye drops are you using exactly? A better eye shot would help clear up what we're supposed to be seeing. I can kind of see a dark kind of build up or something in the first photo, but can't really make it out.

The dark is the inner part of her eyelid. Her eyelids themselves are swollen so the dark areas are more visible. That said, I can try and get a better photo of her eye(s) in case I'm wrong. The vet prescribed antibiotic sterile eye drops.

Something is keeping her from going in her moist hide which she use to go into. I have a couple of questions.

1. What are you using for a substrate in the moist hide?
2. When was the last time you changed the substrate?
3. Where do you place your moist hide at, cool end or hot spot.
4. How much area of the tank does your UTH take up, 10%, 20% 50%?

Suggestions:
1. Get your hot spot temp up to 95, there are many benefits to this.
2. Leave your moist hide in at all times 1/2 on the UTH and 1/2 off. The gecko will burrow in it and move to the temps it needs.

1. Currently, paper towel. A friend recommended adding moss to the hide, which I've never had to do but it can help her rub the skin off?
2. The humid hide substrate is changed at least once daily, sometimes more - I continually check it for moisture.
3. Humid hide is in the hot spot currently, always has been.
4. UTH takes up about 40% of the space.

I'll up my dimmer to raise the temp some, and give her a larger humid hide to accomodate half and half, and see if this helps.

 

[OhioGecko]

1. Currently, paper towel. A friend recommended adding moss to the hide, which I've never had to do but it can help her rub the skin off?
2. The humid hide substrate is changed at least once daily, sometimes more - I continually check it for moisture.
3. Humid hide is in the hot spot currently, always has been.
4. UTH takes up about 40% of the space.

I'll up my dimmer to raise the temp some, and give her a larger humid hide to accomodate half and half, and see if this helps.

I would recommend using a peat moss, vermiculite, coconut fiber mixture for your substrate. I have had success using all three independently but found the best to be a mixture of all three. They hold moisture better than a paper towel and gives the Leo something to borrow in. They will move the substrate around inside the container to get the temps they want.

If there is anyway you can get your UTH to take 10-20% of your space that will help also. You really only need a small area for the Leo to lay to get warmed up, the rest of the habitat will decrease from there to room temp.

Good Luck and keep us updated!

 

[alliemackie]

I would recommend using a peat moss, vermiculite, coconut fiber mixture for your substrate. I have had success using all three independently but found the best to be a mixture of all three. They hold moisture better than a paper towel and gives the Leo something to borrow in. They will move the substrate around inside the container to get the temps they want.

If there is anyway you can get your UTH to take 10-20% of your space that will help also. You really only need a small area for the Leo to lay to get warmed up, the rest of the habitat will decrease from there to room temp.

Good Luck and keep us updated!

Ah, see, I didn't realize that the UTH should take up so little space! I assumed closer to half. I'd have to get a smaller UTH, but I work at a pet store so I can get one cheap.

I had some forest moss leftover from my crested, so I put some into her humid hide and now she seems to not want to go into it. She was going into her humid hide just fine earlier today, though she wasn't actively getting the shed off, thus the moss. Could smell be a factor? It smells like fresh wet soil, of course, as opposed to just paper towel.

Also, should I offer a warm bath before I go to bed, so help soften things up again for her?

You guys are great, as always. I appreciate the help.

 

[katie_]

I would skip the bath until tomorrow. Give her tonight.

 

[houseb]

My gecko had the same thing happening to her for a while and we put in more objects for her to rub up against. I know this doesn't really help now, but maybe it'll work for your gecko in future sheds. Good luck and I hope she starts feeling better soon.

 

[alliemackie]

My gecko had the same thing happening to her for a while and we put in more objects for her to rub up against. I know this doesn't really help now, but maybe it'll work for your gecko in future sheds. Good luck and I hope she starts feeling better soon.

Very true. I keep a chunk of cork bark in there that she likes to climb on, but never anything in the hide itself. Wonder if that would help.

I q-tipped most of the shed off of her in a warm bath this morning, but she still has some along one side of her head (eyes and nose are clear though) and a good amount on her tail... The tail skin wasn't coming off with q-tip rubbing.

I left her all day in her enclosure with a freshly moist hide with moss, and an extra piece of wet paper towel for good measure. I'll bathe her again tomorrow morning if the shed isn't off, and hopefully the tail piece will come off and I can get the skin off her face without her thrashing. Ugh.

Thanks for your continued advice. This gecko is giving me ulcers. Good thing I love her.

 

[alliemackie]

I swear if it's not one thing, it's another.

After her last shed was finally finished (by me), I worked on getting her a bit of extra vitamins, since a Vitamin A deficiency was mentioned as an issue. I gave her herpivite dusted insects every second day for a week as advised by my vet, and saw an improvement immediately with her eyes and overall activity levels.

She went into blue yesterday, so I prepped her humid hide, and she shed all by herself! Whew!

But...

This morning, when I checked her for having shed, I noticed that not only is her throat swelled out on only one side, but her lower tummy area looks a bit swollen. I don't see any darkness in her tummy, so it's doubtful that she ate moss. She seems to be moving around fine, her eyes are open, no visible signs of pain or distress... she is definitely female, so I imagine it's possible that she could be gravid. She's never been with a male and has never been gravid before, but who knows! The throat thing worries me though. I'm scared that this might actually be Vitamin A toxicity. :/

I called my vet this morning for an opinion... not only has he MOVED to another practice, he's in training for a month there and therefore cannot take patients. I know there's another herp vet or two in the area, I haven't researched yet though.

Any thoughts/advice?

 

[alliemackie]

Update again. I called my vet's new practice, and he's seeing old clients, just not taking new clients yet. Whew. So, I booked her yesterday for an appointment this morning.

This was her throat last night. It wouldn't recede at all, just stayed puffed out like a toad.

This morning, her throat was almost back to normal. -_-

I took her in anyway, of course. My vet's new practice didn't accept reptiles before he got there, so Basol was quite the celebrity, LOL. They were all ogling her through the carrier. Stroking her ego. XD

Anyways, the vet had a look, poked and prodded her, and there was no fluid, no blockages, no nothing. Healthy as a horse. He said it was likely an immune response to having a bad shed the previous time, and if it happens again to keep an eye on it for a day and check the inside of her mouth for anything abnormal.

Hope this info helps someone else down the line!

 

[Josh P.]

Glad to hear she's fine again!

 

[alliemackie]

Thought we were getting out of the woods... now the left eye (the worse one all along) is in bad shape. Looks to be a bit pussy and sort of red... assuming an infection. I'm going away for the weekend first thing tomorrow morning. I'm having my pet sitter on watch. Maybe by Monday I'll have to go back to the vet. This weekend is going to be stressful.