For those of you that think Pastel is the same as normal..

[fallen_angel]

Thanks John
Just so there's no confusion, the pics on the Leopard Gecko Wiki are of a Mack Pastel Albino. Moreover, I must REALLY stress this point - there is a difference between Mack Pastels and Mack Snow Pastels. The Mack Snow Pastels are Mack Snows that carry the Pastel gene also. Mack Pastels are NOT Snows by any means and do not carry the Snow gene, but carry the Pastel gene. They are called "Mack Pastels" because they are a by-product from the Mack line, not because they have the Snow trait in them. So Mack Pastel is not the same as Mack Snow Pastel. Just had to really stress that because it can be confusing.

and here's some genetics:

Mack Pastel X Mack Pastel = 100% Mack Pastels
Mack Snow Pastel X Mack Snow Pastel = 25% normals, 50% Mack Snow, and 25% Super Snow, all (theoretically) to be 90% pastel

but here's the kicker, it only takes ONE parent to carry the Pastel gene, so you get the same results with:
Mack Snow Pastel X Mack Snow = 25% normals, 50% Mack Snow, and 25% Super Snow, all (theoretically) to be 90% pastel

in our case, Mack Snow Pastel X Line Bred Snow = 12.5% Super Snow (too young to tell if it is going to be Pastel or not), 25% Mack Pastels, and 50% Mack Snow Pastels

 

[Nigel4less]

Okay so whats the difference between a Classic Pastel(Not from the Mack Line), and a Mack Pastel? Because frankly I can't see a difference they both produce those Ghostly yellows as you can tell.

 

[fallen_angel]

I guess just the same as the difference between a TUG Snow and Line Bred Snow... both Snows but the lines were produced by different people. I don't know, that's just my best guess.

Also, since two of ours (Anubis and Stoney) were produced from Mack Snow Pastel X Line Bred Snow, we just call them Pastels instead of Mack Pastels. But they could also be called Lavenders.

 

[Nigel4less]

I apologize Jess, I didn't mean to bash you. But thanks for answering my questions.

 

[fallen_angel]

I was just going over some of the info I have about the Pastels. The name "Mack" doesn't need to be put in front of "Pastel," it just depends on the person you are talking to (but they are the same)..and apparently the Pastel does pass on 100 percent of the time when both parents carry the trait, and something like 80 percent of the time when only one parent carries the trait. I really don't know everything there is to know, just what I have learned from our own experiences/pairings and what others have told me.

 

[fallen_angel]

I apologize Jess, I didn't mean to bash you. But thanks for answering my questions.

It's okay Nigel, I didn't feel like I was being bashed, I welcome people to question my logic because noone should just assume that everything they are hearing is correct, and it's good that you ask questions :main_thumbsup: I want us ALL to be able to better understand the Pastel gene

 

[Halley]

Okay well I have another point I would like to bring up. In Albey’s line he sometimes produces yellow snows (that are yellow, not to pastel to me at least) I think it is obvious he used all A+ grade snows for breeding. So is the yellow different there. And can’t yellow (a color leopard geckos in the wild carry, and have been breed into them for thousands of years) pop up, and act dominate? Even though it might just be a trait that is line breed from a normal, such as a high yellow? And wouldn’t the yellow almost always dominate the white?

 

[fallen_angel]

I don't think that the yellowness in snows has anything to do with Pastel or Lavender. My argument is that Pastel is an actual gene.

What you are saying holds true in Mack Snows as well, some are more yellow than others, and if you take two really yellow snows, you won't get the pretty white ones. If you take pretty white snows, you get pretty white offspring, and always with some variance. Albey's snows are mostly white, and some do have some yellow, but none will EVER have tons of yellow like some Macks do. I guess I am trying to say that the yellowness hasn't been proven as a seperate allelle.. I mean, you can't take two white snows and say "I am going to get 25% really white geckos, 50% white geckos, and 25% yellow geckos," you know what I mean? As I understand "Snows," the purpose of the trait is to reduce the yellowing and carrot-tail from the normal leopard gecko and some snows reduce more yellow than others based on the lines they came from. I would agree and think that the yellowness would dominate (like if you take a really white snow and breed it with a really yellow snow), you wouldn't have snows as white as the really white parent. So there is something going on with the yellow-factor indeed, but still not a seperate trait that can be predicted with statistics.

 

[supperl]

awsome how they change!

 

[gage]

im probably going to pick up a pastel next month

 

[Ccrashca069]

When I have the room I am going to be buying a couple from Jess I just have to build my reptile room and make anouther rack.

 

[godzillizard]

Whats the difference between pastel, ghost and early project hypos? they all appear to be in shed all the time? Is it just different levels of expression of the original/traditional hypo trait? Are some dominant, random, recessive (or behave recessive) or what?

 

[fallen_angel]

Thanks Thorsten and John

Brian - As far as Ghost and Hypo, those are very similar, if not the same, and are the reduced spotting. The look varies amongst the breeders you buy from I suppose (someone else can correct me if I am wrong).

Pastel is just a color difference (you could compare it to Tang, because Tangs are born looking normal and then turn tangerine). The Pastel babies look normal at first, but then their yellow becomes muted and their dark bands become lavender. Pastel is also synonymous with Lavender. There is no Hypo or Ghost that is incorporated with the Pastel (although some of ours do have reduced spotting because our Line Bred Snow female has reduced spotting, but is not Hypo). I believe in order to be Hypo, the gecko has to have 10 spots or less on it's back. Super Hypo means no spotting at all.

Pastel is dominant, and I am not sure on Ghost and Hypo.. I believe Hypo is co-dom since there is the Super form (once again, someone can correct me on that one).

 

[godzillizard]

I forgot one: what about temperature manufactured (mid 80s) pastels?

Pastel is dominant, and I am not sure on Ghost and Hypo

I produced some Mack snows het Raptor last year, and 1 of 3 turned out pastel (always look like its in shed) but didn't at hatch. I also bred super snow to Tremper sunglow het Raptor females and I got roughly the same percentage of pastel offspring--a third turned out pastel--those are the only pastel/ghost/hypo geckos I own, and they appeared out of nowhere :main_huh:

 

[fallen_angel]

Pastel and Ghost or Hypo are not the same. Ghost and Hypo are similar (reduced spotting), but Pastel does not include reduced spotting.

That is very odd though, are you sure they are Pastel? We just have one parent that carries the Pastel gene that bred this year, and 100% of our babies appear to be Pastel thus far. We were told that if only one parent carried the gene, it would pass about 80% of the time. Although the Pastel gene did originally appear out of nowhere among Mack Snow groups, as I have read.

 

[fallen_angel]

pics of all of our babies are here.. Not that I feel like you are bashing me or anything, but you can go there and see that all of our babies appear to be Pastel, as their dark bands just keep getting lighter and more lavender (except for the MSP babies because they were from totally different parents obviously and I highly doubt that a MSP with Pastel would look any different anyway)

 

[godzillizard]

I'm the last guy to bash anything or anyone! I'm just a noob to these genetics/traits and I want to know more
Do ghosts hatch out looking like they're in shed? I'm getting to the point where I just want to enjoy my geckos, and quit trying to figure out how these genes/traits work I now know why some enigmas walk in circles--they're thinking about leopard gecko genetics...

 

[godzillizard]

Jess--I forgot to add--I REALLY like your pastels--they look alot like Fasciolatus to me, but with even lighter backgrounds. They're very gentle and sweet looking

 

[fallen_angel]

I'm the last guy to bash anything or anyone! I'm just a noob to these genetics/traits and I want to know more
Do ghosts hatch out looking like they're in shed? I'm getting to the point where I just want to enjoy my geckos, and quit trying to figure out how these genes/traits work I now know why some enigmas walk in circles--they're thinking about leopard gecko genetics...

:main_laugh:

I don't think Ghosts hatch out looking like they are in shed, I beleive they hatch out dark and lighten up as they age (?)

Jess--I forgot to add--I REALLY like your pastels--they look alot like Fasciolatus to me, but with even lighter backgrounds. They're very gentle and sweet looking

Thank you very much They are very very sweet, Stoney is actually the friendliest gecko we have :main_yes:

 

[Morph]

Zues is looking good lol