Good ball python cage, yes/no?

[Starwild]

30 gallon aquarium, I painted the back and sides black. Heat is an under-tank heater with a thermostat keeping one side at 90 degrees, cool side is about 77. Substrate is coconut fiber, the hides are pieces of cork bark, humidity in my house is about 50% and gets closer to 80% when the substrate's damp. Have a thermometer/hygrometer on one side and another thermometer on the other (though you can't see it in this photo). Plus a big water bowl for soaking/humidity and some silk plants just to fill in the background.

Any glaring problems, suggestions? Hoping to order my first (cbb) ball this week.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

Just one thing and a suggestion. Thermometer/Hygrometer should be at a level where the reptile is spending a majority of its time. For a BP, that's about 1 to 2" above the substrate.

Also, you do plan on feeding in a different location correct? I'm only wondering because you don't want your new pet to injest substrate due to risk of impaction. Other than that, it looks GREAT! :main_thumbsup:

 

[T&KBrouse]

That looks great!:main_thumbsup:
Let us know how well the Mopani wood works. I've been looking into getting some, but I'd love to hear some opinions on it first.

 

[Starwild]

Just one thing and a suggestion. Thermometer/Hygrometer should be at a level where the reptile is spending a majority of its time. For a BP, that's about 1 to 2" above the substrate.

Also, you do plan on feeding in a different location correct? I'm only wondering because you don't want your new pet to injest substrate due to risk of impaction. Other than that, it looks GREAT! :main_thumbsup:

Gotcha, thanks, will move it. I won't be feeding OUT of the cage, because I don't want to cause undue stress from having to move her around after a meal, but I will definitely be putting down a flat tile to cover the Bed-a-Beast before/during feeding. I'm hoping she'll pick up on that tile going into her cage first as part of the established "feeding day" routine.


TK&Brouse-- actually it's cork bark, not mopani, I borrowed the idea from Proexotics. (Here's a photo of how well it works for them: http://www.proexotics.com/faq_images/hide_spots_cork.jpg ) Very lightweight, not prone to mold, but easy to clean and low to the ground, so I'm hoping it will be good for the snakelet. I do have some mopani, by chance, and I think it would be great for a snake cage...though I would not recommend it for aquariums, because I did water changes for six months hoping it would stop dyeing the water brown, and it never did. Now it's a big decoration on my bookshelf.

 

[goReptiles]

Watch the humidity level. Using the bed-a-beast can raise humidity. Try aspen bedding.

Also, you really won't stress out the snake by moving it to another cage to feed. But, it, also, raise bite risk when you reach in by feeding inside the regular tank.

 

[Starwild]

Watch the humidity level. Using the bed-a-beast can raise humidity. Try aspen bedding.

Also, you really won't stress out the snake by moving it to another cage to feed. But, it, also, raise bite risk when you reach in by feeding inside the regular tank.

That's why I'm using the bed-a-beast, actually--because I have a screen top on a glass aquarium, and I want to do what I can to increase the humidity in order to help snakelet have good sheds. Now that the bed-a-beast has dried from when I first fluffed it up, humidity looks to be right about 55%, which is smack in the middle range of what Melissa Kaplan recommends. I will of course be monitoring this to ensure it stays at an appropriate level.

From what I understand, the problem is not moving the snake to the other container prior to feeding, it's moving the snake BACK to the cage after she's been fed that can cause problems. I don't believe you're supposed to handle a snake for at least two days after feeding, because it can lead to regurgitation--not to mention triggering the already warmed-up feeding response by picking up your snake immediately after she's eaten. I have heard the bite argument from some people--that feeding outside of the cage will make them less likely to strike at you in mistaken feeding response--but I've heard from just as many that it really makes no difference, so to each their own. I'll be feeding with hemostats and on a tile for safety as it is. Thank you very much for your comments, definitely things to think about.

 

[goReptiles]

From what I understand, the problem is not moving the snake to the other container prior to feeding, it's moving the snake BACK to the cage after she's been fed that can cause problems. I don't believe you're supposed to handle a snake for at least two days after feeding, because it can lead to regurgitation--not to mention triggering the already warmed-up feeding response by picking up your snake immediately after she's eaten.

I wasn't reffering to moving the snake to the feeding tub but moving it in general to and from the feeding tub.

You can pick up a snake and move it from its feeding tub to it's regular enclosure after feeding. No handling after 2 days means don't play with the snake. You shouldn't have any problems just moving the snake from one tub to another- handling for that shouldn't take any more than say 30 seconds or whatever.

 

[ShaffersExoticHerps]

There's no reason to move a snake to a different enclosues to eat. It causes un needed stress to the snake even if it is only moving from one cage to the other after eating. Some finicky balls could regurge and refuse meals after being stressed. Do you think the big time breeders take the time to move all their snakes to eat? I know they don't. I'm not saying it's wrong, I hope nobody gets offended. Also, a snakes feed response can be crazy at times. Some species are worse (retics) but I have seen balls that have a pretty strong feed response. I don't like moving snakes during that time. That's just my opinion though. Nice cage set up! Keep us updated!

 

[Starwild]

I do think that in some cases, it comes down to personal preference and what works best for your snake. So for now I'm going to try the eco-earth and feeding in-cage but careful not to let her ingest any substrate. Though I'm not entirely sure this kind of coconut fiber could cause impaction, I've tried to find out about it and haven't seen anything so far, but of course that could just mean I've missed something. The eco-earth is textured almost like fine potting soil, with soft grains, and the granules are a lot smaller than shredded aspen. In any case I will be watching like a hawk to make sure feeding goes safely and well. :main_thumbsup:

And hey, if that does not work for my snake, I'll try a different approach. I'm not averse to trying paper towels as a substrate, or feeding out of the cage. It just depends on how it goes.

Thank you all! I brought my girl home today, and I love her already. She investigated her cage and settled down in a corner under a hide, so now I'm going to leave her alone for the next week before attempting a feed and then starting to handle her. Taking her out of her bag was actually the first time I've ever held a snake, and it was a wonderful moment I will never forget. She was such a good little girl, balled up and just wanting the big warm thing to go away, but she uncurled when I went to put her in her tank, and she started trying to climb up my arm.

 

[T&KBrouse]

Aww! Congratulations on your new baby!
Will you be putting up any pictures of her? I'd love to see her! (BPs are my all time favorite)

 

[goReptiles]

Do you think the big time breeders take the time to move all their snakes to eat? I know they don't.

I know that big breeders don't move all their snakes to feed, but they also don't house on dirt or aspen.

 

[ReptileMan27]

Looks good to me,the bed a beast is fine. With a tank the hard part is keeping the hummidity up lol.

 

[ShaffersExoticHerps]

I know that big breeders don't move all their snakes to feed, but they also don't house on dirt or aspen.

Most don't. But I do know a few big breeders that do use aspen. I personally agree with not feeding on that type of bedding, but I'm just saying that some do.

 

[Starwild]

She's settled in nicely and had a shed, so I wanted to handle her a little today before I feed her tomorrow. A few pics:

Just a lil' normal CBB girl, got her from proexotics.com. She's about eight months old and just weighed in at 405 grams. I'm guessing that's a good body weight for her age/length? She looks and feels very, very solid and strong. Is there a growth rate chart I could reference to make sure she's growing as she should?

ETA: Forgot to mention, she shed all in one piece but for the very tip of her nose where she scratched a bit off, and she's really seemed to like the cork bark hides. That last photo was where I'd just put her back in the tank after handling her.

 

[Starwild]

She ate an f/t weanling rat tonight, no problems at all. I put it in the cage with her and left her alone, came back about ten minutes later to see her realigning her jaw. Ball pythons, picky? Surely you jest.

I had held her for a while earlier this evening, and she stayed loosely balled the entire time. I'm not sure, but I think she might've fallen asleep...her head was out of her coils, laid flat against her body, but her tongue wasn't flicking and her breathing seemed slow and even. How can you tell when a snake's asleep?

 

[WftRight]

First, congratulations on getting a ball python. They are wonderful animals, and she's beautiful.

Secondly, your setup is beautiful. I think the plants in the back help. They will allow her to move around without being seen, and that freedom will make her feel more secure.

Most people don't put ball pythons on ground coconut. I'm not sure that there will be any harm, but you would be in a minority. I've known some breeders who refuse to use aspen. There have been cases of mold growing in damp aspen and killing the snake.

I'm skeptical of whether your tile is going to keep a f/t mouse from picking up some coconut. One of my girls one time started on the wrong end of a rat and ended up dragging the thing all around the cage before she got the rat oriented correctly and swallowed. I ended up picking little pieces of bark off the rat the whole time.

I have only one ball python on a natural substrate, and I feed her by putting her in a paper bag and then lowering the f/t rat into the bag. I put the paper bag in the cage before I feed, and I just close the cage when she takes the prey. After she eats, she crawls out of the bag. I often leave the bag in the cage for a day or two until I need to change water.

The growth rate chart is something that I've wanted for a long time. I've never found a good one. I once found some data on one website, and I even did statistical analysis to build 90% confidence bars around the data. I was going to supplement the original data with individual weights that I got from others, but I never got around to finishing the thing. I do have a chart on each of my ball pythons. The problem is that I didn't get any of them as hatchlings. I'll show you the charts, but overall, I think 405 grams at eight months sounds fine.

The first one is for my first ball python. She was maybe two to five months old when I bought her in October '05. I didn't get a scale for another month or two, so I don't know what her original weight was. When I was comparing her to the other data, she seemed a bit small.

The second one is for my third ball python. He was about six or seven months old when I got him, and he was smaller than yours. He eats almost every feeding, and he's now outgrown two females that are a year older than he is.

I can't find a good chart online for my other ball python. She was probably eight to ten months old when I got her in April '06, and she weighed around 400 grams. Unfortunately, she has never been a good eater and is growing very slowly.


Bill

PS. I weigh the snakes and the meals. For defecations and sheds, I just assign an arbitrary weight in order to show these events on the chart.

 

[norsmis]

That's why I'm using the bed-a-beast, actually--because I have a screen top on a glass aquarium, and I want to do what I can to increase the humidity in order to help snakelet have good sheds. Now that the bed-a-beast has dried from when I first fluffed it up, humidity looks to be right about 55%, which is smack in the middle range of what Melissa Kaplan recommends. I will of course be monitoring this to ensure it stays at an appropriate level.

Bedding that is constantly damp can also cause scale rot, especially in ball pythons. Keep a close eye on the belly to make sure this doesnt happen. Also, I dont know that Melissa Kaiplan has the best care sheets out there.....
Just my opinion.

 

[Starwild]

Bedding that is constantly damp can also cause scale rot, especially in ball pythons.

I think I must've not been quite clear, sorry! The bedding is not constantly damp. I check it all the time, but it's like very soft dirt in texture and quite dry. When I mist it (not even every day, more like ever four or five days), it becomes only slightly moist--not even to the point of sticking to my hand when I run my fingers over it--and yet it's doing a great job of keeping the humidity up. Also, I only mist the open areas, not under her hides, and so it's usually completely dry before she even comes out. I really like the setup thus far.

I've continued to get mixed messages with this bedding. Some people say it's fine, some people say it's not. Same thing with the feeding out-of-cage. The breeder says the bedding's fine. I'm trying to find someone who's had a snake become impacted on coconut fiber and haven't come across anyone yet, not to say it hasn't happened, but the bits are so much smaller than aspen that I'm inclined to think that even if she did ingest a bit, it shouldn't hurt her. It's really more like dirt than anything I've come across, certainly not as hard, sharp or hard to process as wood would be. And no way would she be able to ingest a great deal of it. If it happened, it'd only be a few grains, because it's too loose to stick to much of anything.

I've fed her twice now, and she's doing just fine. If I see any instance of it even possibly becoming a problem, heck I'll give her silk sheets to sleep on if that's what it would take, her health is my first, biggest, and only consideration here. I'm glad you like the looks of the cage but looks are tertiary IF that to health and well-being of course. But for the moment I feel that the proven health benefits of the coconut outweigh the--at the moment, and to the best of my knowledge--small chance that it'll be an issue.

I might call the university vet school and ask their opinion, or to see if they've ever seen problems with this stuff. They have a reptile expert at the small animal clinic.

Thank you very much for the charts and input!