Greetings all. I am a new owner with a few concerns.

[blaydh]

I teach middle school science, including Life Science, and have a few different classrooms pets that I use as living examples for different classes of animals as we study them. When it came to reptiles, I did a lot of reading online and talked with a local pet store owner (very limited options in NW Wisconsin) and decided that I would get a Leopard Gecko as my classroom reptile.

PetCo had baby Leos on sale the last few weeks, and picked one up yesterday. I know that all animals take a little time to get acclimated, but because it is so little, I am a bit more nervous than usual and want some verification of what I am doing or some tips on what I should change.

Since we are just over a month away from the start of school, I decided to buy one now and give it a few weeks with constant supervision available and let it grow up a bit before taking it to my classroom.

Meet Darwin. He (calling it a “he” for now, no clue yet, really) was the smallest gecko in the tank, but my daughter really liked his coloring pattern because it was much different from all the others. It was probably not the best idea to choose the “runt”, but it is what it is.

I have a 20-tall tank, which I know is not "ideal" but I am working with somewhat of a limited budget (teacher, remember?), so I am using what I already had. It was thoroughly cleaned out and had no animal in it for over a year. I lined the bottom of the tank with about 1/2" of regular play-sand so that I could bury a 25-watt (4.5m/14.5') heat cable. When I buried the cable, I ran it similar to in-floor heating tubes, with more runs on one end than the other to try and set up a gradient. On top of the sand, I trimmed and laid two slate tiles. The tiles fit tight enough to the side of the tank that the gecko should not have access to sand that it may accidentally ingest. The remainder of the tank set up includes a stone tree, a stone hide, a shallow water dish, a food dish, and a dual dial thermometer and humidity gauge. I also have a small cone that I alternate between a 65w light and a 100w Zilla black night heat bulb.

During the day when the big floodlight bulb is on, the thermometer registers around 90-92 degrees (F) and at night, with the black light, it registers about 80-82 degrees (F). I also have a dense foam "rock" wall background that I will reinstall when Darwin gets bigger, but he was crawling up and wedging himself behind it, so I removed it to prevent problems.

We bought a cricket keeper so that I could store a week or so worth of crickets for the times when Darwin will be at home. I put about an inch of oatmeal in the bottom and a few apple slices so that the crickets could eat, and some torn up egg cartons so they can hide and do what crickets do. The goal is to use a 10-gallon aquarium as a cricket breeder in my classroom once school starts, so I am practicing the setup for it now.

Now for the concerns…

• He is so darn small, but I cannot tell if he is undernourished. His tail is not fat, but I do not have the experience to tell if he is too thin. The others in the tank had tails that seemed about the same proportionately. Thoughts?
  
• I have yet to see him actually eat a cricket. Again, I know he may just need some time to get acclimated, or he might be eating them when I am not looking, but there is just enough of a gap along one of the tiles that the crickets can escape him. When I looked this morning, there were a couple hiding under the tile by the sand. I dusted a few more and put them in and he actually runs away from them if they touch him. He doesn’t seem to have any interest at all. At what point should I start to worry about him not eating?

My plans:

1. I already plan to swap out the 65w flood with a regular heat bulb. I thought the black light would take care of the supplemental daytime heating without polluting my room with extra light during presentations, etc., and the heat cable would handle the night-time, but it never gets the tank above 82 degrees. I had the floodlight bulb laying around, so it is a temporary solution until I can get back into town.
   
2. Instead of the dial thermometers, I will be picking up an IR point-and-shoot thermometer. I could use it for class anyway, and I could have the kids run a daily log of temperature gradient readings by using that device.
   
3. 1-2 more hides. I want to build a hide for each side out of the other slate tiles that I have, but I haven’t found any adhesive that will be safe for Darwin. I am planning to order some. Then I will turn the existing hide into a shed box by adding sphagnum moss when he sheds.

Well, I know that was a very long read, and I am probably a little paranoid about messing up, but I like to have more information than I need. I appreciate any and all feedback. Thank you for reading.

 

[scm133]

I got mine from PetSmart one month ago. He only weighed 3 grams. He is just now putting on some weight. I would not use the bright light. Room light is fine during the day. If you need additional heat during the day to keep the temp in the 90's, use the black light. However, they like belly heat. A thermostat would also help. Also try mealworms instead. And don't forget a humid hide!! Good Luck!

 

[Pinky81]

Welcome! Your little Leo is so small because it is probably just over a week old. Sadly big chain pet stores breed to sell no matter what the outcome. Most quality breeders will not even think of selling a baby Leo until it reaches 15grams. It is normal for Leo's to go off eating when moved, thus the reason why myself and others who breed do not sell any animal untill they reach around 15 grams. This ensures the Leo will have a little bit of body weight to make it through the "going off food" phase.

But you have the little guys now so lets try and make sure you don't lose him. He looks perfectly normal for a Leo baby that is maybe about 2 weeks old...Im gonna guess around 3-4grams (if that). Get rid of the bright lights, Leopard Gecko's are Nocturnal so they do not need supplimental lighting, in fact basking or bright white lights can stress the animal to the point they may stop eating. The round dial thermo is useless so its good your going to get a temp gun. Maybe in the mean time get a Zoomed or Zilla digital thermo probe.(about $10 at any pet store) The probe should lay directly on the floor of the tank on the hot side. In the winter I use a Infared heat lamp to suppliment ambient temp. Again these lights can stress out your Leo. You'll find differing opinions on if Leo's are bothered by infared bulbs. Mine seem to love them, at times climbing their decor just to lay near the infared light. Again bright "basking" bulbs or incandescent bulbs, or UVB bulbs not needed.

You didn't say anything about calcium/vit suppliments. You should make sure you have a small dish of calcium+D in the tank at all times for your growing Leo. You should also be dusting our feeders prior to feeding them to the Leo.

And lastly do NOT leave crickets in the tank over night. Cricket WILL bite and injure Leo's if left in the tank...and with such a small Leo yours is at higher risk. Better bet feed in th evening and if the leo doesn't eat within 15 mins remove all left over crickets and try again later. Best option is to try feeding Mealworms, they won't bite your leo, you can leave them in a escape proof dish overnight no worries.

Well Im sure there is more but my suggestion is to check out the link above for Caresheets for other tips. Also use the search option on this site, there is so much info on here your questions have probably already been answered!!!

Again welcome and congrats on your first Leo! And its nice to see another Sconsinite on here!

 

[blaydh]

Thanks Pinky! Nice to see so many cheeseheads on these forums.

Well, I picked up a temp gun and found out that the dial thermometer is off by quite a bit. The floor on the hot side was showing 80 degrees on the dial, but 100 degrees with the IR gun. The cool side was ten degrees cooler on both. I am making adjustments now, hopefully he will perk up and start eating.

In other bad news, I stopped in and talked with the local pet store guy. He said that they have been very busy over the last few weeks selling "replacements" for the ones that people bought at Petco. Seems the Chicago-based breeder picked up a contract with Wal-Mart and the quality of animals has gone downhill very fast. He said that the geckos from the store where I got mine had parasites and that the success rate with them was very low. I'm kicking myself now, but I would rather kick the breeder and the big-box stores for their low performances.

I just hope I can get the little guy to pull through and start eating. He is quite lethargic today.

 

[lillith]

It will sometimes take new leos a week or two to want to eat after a move.
I know it's hard but the more you mess with him this first week, the longer it will take for him to settle and start eating. Other than feeding, I'd let him be.
I didn't see if you have a moist hide for him? That seems to be the favorite hangout for most of mine. I think you got a cute little stripey guy, good luck with him. I think it's great that you're bringing a leo into the classroom for the students. =)

 

[LeoMerlin]

Darwin is absolutely beautiful! I wish you the best of luck with him considering you stated the pet store claimed the breeders gave away leos with parasites or something like that? I hope Darwin doesn't have any of that problem! They do need time to adjust, and if you will be taking it to school, will you be "leaving" it at the school with someone assigned to take care of it while you are at home? I know when I was at my community college, one of my biology professors has a pair of bearded dragons that is kept at the school in one of the "lobbies" in a good sized tank. She has someone (if she's unable to, especially in the summer time) come in and feed/clean etc.

If you are moving it to the classroom, that will also cause some stress for a few days to a week from what I've noticed with my Merlin. I was house sitting for a week and needed to take him with me, it took him a day or two to adjust again to the new set up, but ate just fine.

Moist hides are a must for shedding purposes, I use paper towels for less mess and it's easier to replace. I have a 3-in-1 cave that is his moist hide, some people make their own. You can go on YouTube to see videos on how others make moist hides. Some people use spaghnum moss, or other items. I just know paper towels are great for babies-adults.

Merlin seems to spend a majority of the day and night in his moist hide. He does come out a bit if I'm still up, and I know he's up a little while I'm asleep and sometimes when I first wake up but it's not always for long, lol.

For that size, pinhead crickets are your best bet. I've been looking at places to order crickets from instead of making extra trips every week or so. Oatmeal sounds like a great gutloading food for the crickets. Also I have read people feed the crickets carrots or potatoes. Just depends on your preference I suppose. Hope this helps, and again I wish you luck with Darwin! Leos are definitely lots of fun to watch as they hunt and just fun to watch in general ^.^

 

[M_surinamensis]

Slightly older thread... but what the hell, may as well make a few comments.

I did a lot of reading online and talked with a local pet store owner (very limited options in NW Wisconsin) and decided that I would get a Leopard Gecko as my classroom reptile.

PetCo had baby Leos on sale the last few weeks, and picked one up yesterday.

It's just an etiquette thing, a social gaffe... but that series of events is remarkably disrespectful. To look at the available sources, decide one of them is more trustworthy, more informative, will provide higher quality information; to then use their time, take their knowledge, engage them as an interested customer so you can go buy the animal from someplace that's a bit cheaper is pretty egregious.

Offhand, I do not know that small store owner, I don't know if they are credible, I don't know how long they have been in business, I don't know if they're a nice person or not... but I do know that one of the reasons store owners will spend their time educating, answering questions and allowing their expertise to be tapped as a resource is so that they can make a sale and gain a customer. To use them up and then go elsewhere to spend money is a calculated disregard for the value of that person's time and effort.

If you trust them well enough to be a primary informational resource then you should damn well recognize that when it comes time to hand over some money and obtain an animal. The fact that people are happy to use and discard such assets to save ten bucks in a big part of why the chain stores are so prevalent and the small shops (including many of those run by genuine experts) aren't able to thrive to the degree they should based on quality and reputation.

Everyone, with every purchase, should put their money in a place where it will mean success for those who deserve it. It might be a local shop, it might be a breeder who sells online or at a show, it might even be a big-box-chain store depending on the quality of the local employees. Make good standards and practices, good information, a profitable thing and it'll be something more suppliers strive towards as an inherent part of their business model.

Many business owners are nice people, or at least people who recognize that they are in a service industry when it comes to customer relations. I am not a nice person. If someone grilled me for a couple hours and I answered every question they had about an animal, then they went away and bought it from someone else... and had the sheer audacity, the unmitigated gall to come back to me when they were having a problem... I'd tell them to go piss up a rope. Or something along those lines but rather more colorful, as I wouldn't be inhibited by the rules of conduct that this forum has in place.

I have a 20-tall tank, which I know is not "ideal" but I am working with somewhat of a limited budget (teacher, remember?), so I am using what I already had.

If that branchy plastic tree lookin' deal is what I think it is, it may be a problem. Take it out, turn it over... has it got a hole in the bottom? If so, get rid of it; it's one of those things an animal can crawl up inside, wedging themselves in so that they cannot exit it and so they cannot be pulled back out. End up having to break and cut away at it, trying to get close enough to open an escape route without injuring the animal in the process.

In other bad news, I stopped in and talked with the local pet store guy. He said that they have been very busy over the last few weeks selling "replacements" for the ones that people bought at Petco. Seems the Chicago-based breeder picked up a contract with Wal-Mart and the quality of animals has gone downhill very fast. He said that the geckos from the store where I got mine had parasites and that the success rate with them was very low.

No matter who your local guy happens to be, anything he says about his competition should be taken with a grain of salt. The employees and owners of most pet stores gossip and trash talk like a bunch of fish-wives and a little improvisation tends to sneak in there to a greater or lesser degree. They're often quick on the draw to put their competitors in the worst possible light; things like accuracy and absolute truth often get lost in the snap judgments, rumor, insinuations and hyperbole.

 

[blaydh]

Slightly older thread... but what the hell, may as well make a few comments.



It's just an etiquette thing, a social gaffe... but that series of events is remarkably disrespectful. To look at the available sources, decide one of them is more trustworthy, more informative, will provide higher quality information; to then use their time, take their knowledge, engage them as an interested customer so you can go buy the animal from someplace that's a bit cheaper is pretty egregious....

etc., etc.

While I would agree with you based on the limited information you have available, your misjudgment is based on a lot of assumptions. To be blunt, you don't know enough about the situation to get as worked up as you appear to be. As you said yourself, accuracy and truth can get lost in snap judgements.

Perhaps I can shed a little more light on the situation and you can realize that the soapbox was unnecessary.

The local guy knew ahead of time what my plans were, and he is my supplier of all other pet supplies in my classroom. The couple of geckos he did have included a blazing blizzard and another more unique morph that were upwards of $40 each. Since I am putting my own money up for 5 different class tanks/cages at the moment to provide different learning experiences for my students, he knows the budget is tight...especially for a new pet that I am not experienced with. I make up for it.

For example, when I go in to buy food, bedding, etc., I take an extra few minutes to stop at an ATM to help him avoid the 5-10% in fees that the credit card companies would charge him if I used my normal payment method. I've gotten all of my fish from him and we are on a first name basis because I am in there so much. My students go to his store based on my recommendation. The few dollars in profit margin that he did not get from my gecko has been made up for many times by accessories that have a much larger profit margin. As a matter of fact, I just bought another hide and crickets from him yesterday. So, the extra $25 he didn't get from the gecko has already been gained back at a higher rate of profit.

Simply put...relax...it'll be okay. I appreciate your conviction in trying to convey the message of small-box versus big-box, but it would perhaps be better served with a dedicated, logical, "how-to" type of thread about buying geckos that could be stickied in another area?

Thanks for the advice on the tree thing. I would not have thought about the risk of getting wedged inside had it been open. It was solid on the bottom, but I ended up taking it out just due to it being a bit too big for the tank. As soon as I find a 20-long, it may go back in just for aesthetics.



Update-wise: Darwin was quite sick in the beginning. After two-weeks of not eating and passing watery stools, I took him back to PetCo. Part of the logic in getting him from there versus the local guy was that they have a 15-day policy where new animals can be brought back for vet care (on their dime) if there is an issue. Had he been from the local store, I would not have had that option because he is a reseller, not a breeder. They hand-fed him medicated food and nursed him back. He is now doing very well and is one of the major centerpieces of my classroom. The number of teachable moments regarding feeding, shedding, nocturnal vs. diurnal, adaptations, etc. has been well worth the investment.

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions. I'm looking forward to a long and healthy career for Darwin as a teacher's aide.

 

[scm133]

So glad to read Darwin is doing good. Once you get them over the hump, and they are eating and thriving...it is a joy. You can also get scales and weigh him every week. You will be amazed at his weight gain. Another fun thing in the classroom..keeping a baby growth chart!!!

 

[Dimidiata]

The local guy knew ahead of time what my plans were, and he is my supplier of all other pet supplies in my classroom. The couple of geckos he did have included a blazing blizzard and another more unique morph that were upwards of $40 each. Since I am putting my own money up for 5 different class tanks/cages at the moment to provide different learning experiences for my students, he knows the budget is tight...especially for a new pet that I am not experienced with. I make up for it.


Update-wise: Darwin was quite sick in the beginning. After two-weeks of not eating and passing watery stools, I took him back to PetCo. Part of the logic in getting him from there versus the local guy was that they have a 15-day policy where new animals can be brought back for vet care (on their dime) if there is an issue. Had he been from the local store, I would not have had that option because he is a reseller, not a breeder. They hand-fed him medicated food and nursed him back. He is now doing very well and is one of the major centerpieces of my classroom. The number of teachable moments regarding feeding, shedding, nocturnal vs. diurnal, adaptations, etc. has been well worth the investment.

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions. I'm looking forward to a long and healthy career for Darwin as a teacher's aide.

IF you can only buy a cheap leo and cant afford a regular priced and potential more healthy leo then how do you exspect to have 5 class tanks? Are all the other animals gonna be cheapest you can find? IMO 1 good tank with a propper setup is better then 5 halfassed tanks with improper set ups and potentialy sick animals. This isnt a attack and i dont mean it to be but its just my thinking on the situation.

 

[blaydh]

IF you can only buy a cheap leo and cant afford a regular priced and potential more healthy leo then how do you exspect to have 5 class tanks? Are all the other animals gonna be cheapest you can find? IMO 1 good tank with a propper setup is better then 5 halfassed tanks with improper set ups and potentialy sick animals. This isnt a attack and i dont mean it to be but its just my thinking on the situation.

Fair question, and it doesn't totally sound like an attack, just a misunderstanding. It is not so much a case of "not being able to afford it" as much as it is a case of I already spend a lot of my own money in the classroom the way it is and like to make savings where I can. I certainly do not have 5 "half-assed" tanks in my room (that is the only part that sounded insulting, but I get where you think you are coming from), they are actually all on the nice side. I have used grants and other means to make sure that all of my animals are well-cared for and have quality housing. That doesn't mean I am about to run out and buy a new complete setup if what I have will suffice, hence the questions regarding 20-T vs. 20-L and the other equipment.

To clarify, I am not setting up 5 new, different tanks at one time. Darwin is the most recent addition to a busy and healthy classroom of plants and animals alike, but they all need upkeep and maintenance, repairs, etc., hence the budgeting attempts. The standard Leos at the local place were not in stock at the time, only the more selective morphs, which were more expensive than what I would have wanted to buy anyway. Even if they had been, he is not a breeder, he is a reseller. I cannot definitively say that his supplier has any better quality of animals...they might even come from the same place PetCo gets them.

It seems that the "local" store guy has been misinterpreted as being a breeder or someone who has a verified record of superb quality. Don't get me wrong, I trust him enough to take what he says as being fairly well informed, but he is not an absolute expert on everything. His parents owned a mall pet store and he has taken over since they retired. We are talking extreme NW Wisconsin here...tip of Lake Superior. The availability of varied pets is pretty limited and a small pet store business versus a large retailer does not hold the same pattern of small-store-expert vs. large-volume-superstore as that of a specialty store or breeder as found in larger cities.

I completely agree with doing it "right" versus doing it "cheap", but as a calculated risk, I did not see any reason not to get the Leo from PetCo, especially when the medical guarantee turned out to be needed. I'd like to think of it as I found a great Leo that may have otherwise not been as well-cared for, and now he has a warm and safe home and will be swooned over for many years to come while he teaches kids empathy and proper animal husbandry.

 

[blaydh]

Another fun thing in the classroom..keeping a baby growth chart!!!

Thought about it! I had planned on getting the digital scale for it, but I am still way too overprotective and leery of having 7th and 8th graders wanting to handle him. Instead, I picked up an IR thermometer and have having them chart the temperature gradients and do the feedings. I may end up regretting it later, but I'll err on the side of caution, especially since this is my first gecko and I am just starting to attempt to handle him in short increments.

Perhaps if I add another at some point in the future...

 

[acpart]

I admire your patience and willingness to explain in the face of a fair amount of questioning. Although Petco is not my venu of choice, if a gecko from there is chosen carefully, cared for properly and attended to at the first sign of a problem, as you have done, things can work out very well. I live in a completely different area than you, urban New England and there are more than 6 Petco's and Petsmarts within 20 miles of me, most of which I have visited. There are some where I would (and have) bought geckos based on the generally good shape they are in and what I know about the expertise people who work there and there are others where I wouldn't buy a gecko. I hope your tanks all continue to work out.

Aliza

 

[ElizabethJayne60]

Welcome fellow cheesehead. I, too, admire your patience. Many kudos to you!!!

I purchase a lot of supplies from a small, local petstore because the big box stores don't carry the items I want for some reason. I was quite disappointed recently to figure out that the small store owner is pretty clueless in geckos and their care. Really made me wonder why she had what I was looking for.

There certainly is the responsiblity of doing our own research before making purchases. I will continue to do the best I can with the resources available. This will be a balance between the local store, the box store, and reptile shows.

Good luck with little Darwin. He (?) is adorable. I'm so glad to hear he's doing better.