Has anyone seen feet/toes like this before?

[OhioGecko]

I just puchased a Snow Tremper to breed and the pictures below is what I received. I'm still waiting to here back from the seller therefore I will not disclose their name.

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Could this bruising be due to shipping? I received 4 other geckos in this shipment and no others had any bruising. Check out the toes, how the angle up. The gecko actually walks on its palms.

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A better view of the feet and toes.

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The next pic shows the gecko on slate to rule out sensitivity to the surface.
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Is this a birth defect or could it of happened to this gecko in shipment with the other 4 being OK?

The original gecko that was advertised was 50g and was a group deal for a project. Well the seller let me know he sold the original snow tremper but said he had an equivalent one that the only difference was this one was darker. He assured me there was no problems with this gecko or any of the others. All the others are great by the way.

After I paid for them he sent me an e-mail saying this one hasn't been eating probabally due to ovalating or the weather. He said it had lost some weight. It is 40g and looks more like a runt.

He called to confirm reciept and I questioned him on the bruising (I didn't notice the feet until later in the day). He said he didn't notice any bruising. He then sent me an email later in the day saying that he did remember the gecko getting bullied and possibly bitten on the head. I questioned him on the feet and he replied that he never noticed any issues with it's feet.

I guess I'm venting here. Does anyone know of this condition of the feet, and if this gecko is even breedable?

I'm very disappointed to say the least.

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

It looks to me like a badly stuck shed.

Try to soak the gecko for about 15 mins in a tupperware container with luke warm water up to it's belly. You can then gently rub the toes and feet with a qtip to try to remove the stuck shed.

This may take a few sessions to get it all off. Give the animal a decent break between soaks (a few hours at least).

 

[Ipsl]

Whats on his head? It does seem like he/she was getting bullied. All and all this seems kinda shady from my first thoughts, but than I hate people I hope it works out. Is the tail a re-gen? Im still new but I would think that the tail would have dropped if there was fighting going on.

 

[OhioGecko]

The seller has contacted me after I sent the pics to him. He was totally surprised and thinks it might be MBD and the stress of the shipment. He is willing to send another gecko as a replacement and keep this one as a non-breedable pet.

He does think the condition can possibly reversed with calcium and D3 in about a weeks time. I have Osteo form in gatorade cap so will see what happens.

The girl is in complete shed right now and mostly laying in her moist hide. If she still has problems with this shed I will soak her.

 

[OhioGecko]

The tail is not a regen but it does look short compared to our other geckos the same size.

 

[DLS Reptile]

It looks like early stages of MBD. This along with stuck shed on its toes does not happen overnight. Or even in a few weeks. A semi healthy gecko with stuck shed usually will not curl its feet. MBD is a calcium deficiency. when a gecko is not getting enough calcium in its diet its body starts taking it from calcium sources in the geckos body IE bones. when this happens the bones become soft. This is when you will see deformities in the spine,legs tail etc..Mind you, I had a gecko get loose for 5 months that I found and though she was severely underweight and had stuck shed on her feet she had no signs of MBD and is doing great. Also, MBD can be stopped with proper calcium supplementation but the effects will not reverse to a normal looking gecko. This gecko should have not been shipped in this condition. In my opinion it looks as if the gecko received a mouth injury from something. This caused the gecko to not eat for a period of time and the above problems surfaced.

 

[malt_geckos]

The seller has contacted me after I sent the pics to him. He was totally surprised and thinks it might be MBD and the stress of the shipment.

That is a load of crap... That doesn't happen from shipping a gecko. :main_thumbsdown:

 

[OhioGecko]

Thanks Jermey, I went ahead and did the warm soak and removed most of the shed from the toes with a q-tip. That worked great. The little girl did good for me. It seems that even though she can't move her toes, she definately could feel me softly rubbing the q-tips over them.

The seller really seems surprised and is willing to let me pick from his site a replacement. The only problem with this is that I bought a breeding group, and the female that has all the problems was the one with the genetic traits that matched with the male to produce what we needed. The seller does not have another female like her and we will have to breed one additional season in hopes to produce a female to replace this one.

The one I received was $120.00, and he said he would ship a sub 100 dollar leo free and anything between 100 - 150 for me to pay shipping or he would possibly split the shipping. I don't know the industry standard for this type of deal. Can some of you other breeders shed light on this? Good or Bad I don't know?

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

The seller has contacted me after I sent the pics to him. He was totally surprised and thinks it might be MBD and the stress of the shipment.

I have actually received a gecko that suffered from signs of MBD after shipping, that was perfectly normal before shipping. Stress from shipping can exacerbate, a deficiency that may not otherwise be noticed.

 

[PacHerp]

Hey Thad,

I find this situation to be a little weird...

It looks like the injuries on that gecko are more than what shipping could cause. Not that I would EVER EVER EVER ship a gecko in that condition, but if something like this comes to light after shipping, I would hope the seller would offer a prompt refund or ship an equal or greater value gecko for free for the troubles that you went through.

Just my two cents...

 

[DLS Reptile]

I am sorry, I do not buy it. Shipping takes 24-48 hours, 48 if the carrier messes up. That gecko has skin shed that looks like multiple sheds were left. MBD does not happen overnight. This gecko was obviously not given the proper care. I would expect anyone that did this would do what ever it took to make things right. And no, you should not pay ANYTHING...shipping included...:main_angry: :main_angry:

 

[Stitch]

Get the replacement gecko, nurse this one back to health and then sell both to try and get the one that you were looking for in the first place.

If you paid a $120 for the gecko then you should get a $120 gecko to replace it. Now if that replacement gecko is $150 then I would say you pay the difference $30. But in any case no matter the cost of the gecko he should pay for shipping. For him to say that you can have anything sub $100 leads me to believe he knew the gecko he was sending was in bad shape. This way he could sell it at a high $ amount and then replace it with a cheap one.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

I sent this gecko to Thad as part of a group. The female in question was definitely not in this condition when I offered her to him, and I looked her over when I packed her up. I would not sell a gecko in that condition, and she looked perfectly normal when she left here. Of course I was surprised, upset actually.:main_huh:

I was first told about the markings on her head, but had not yet seen a pic. I thought maybe this was from when she was younger, and housed with her "bully" clutchmate. They had been seperated for a few months tho`.

Next I was told the gecko was only walking on it`s palms, and was shown the pics. My first thought was MBD exacerbated by shipping, because I had never seen this before. I have had the gecko since she hatched in May of 2006, and cared for her weekly, at the very least. I have seen MBD in a newly aquired gecko, that was fine before being shipped, in the past. But how would she have the bruising on her head? I did not notice that when she left here, and it is easy to see even in the pics. So I realized this must have happened during shipping.

I have offered a gecko of the same genetics (het for Albino instead) of greater value, with shipping, for free. Or really anything of the same value, that is just what would fit the group he bought, the best. Next was the option to get a few geckos(equaling more than the value of the gecko Thad agreed to keep), or a more expensive gecko, if Thad would help out with shipping, in that case. I have even offered a deal on a future purchase, if he is not able to make a choice. Considering something happened in shipping, I am doing my very best to make things right.

The value of the gecko, since it was bought in a group was $100, so basically if he wanted geckos totalling more than $125, I was asking him to at least pay part of the shipping. So he can pick whatever gecko/s he likes.

BTW, the gecko had just shed a few days ago, I did not have a chance to get the shed off. I do not think it was more than one layer, of stuck shed.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Thad, actually the two other females you bought, and the Mack I offered you, can produce the same types of geckos, that the Mack Snow Albino can. That was why I offered that one, as she would fit the project best. She is even a proven breeder, and could easily lay more eggs than the first-timer.

Anyway, the gecko you bought in the group was only $100, plus I gave you a deal on the fifth gecko. I basically gave you the option to replace her with anything you want, if you help pay some of the difference, or shipping. That was all I meant. If it costs a little more that is fine, but I just did not want to send you a $150 gecko and have to pay shipping myself, that would not be fair. I could have just said you get $100 back or a $125 off or something, and you get to keep the gecko. Either way it is the same thing. Just to let you know.

 

[Stitch]

The value of the gecko, since it was bought in a group was $100, so basically if he wanted geckos totalling more than $125, I was asking him to at least pay part of the shipping. So he can pick whatever gecko/s he likes.

Next I was told the gecko was only walking on it`s palms, and was shown the pics. My first thought was MBD exacerbated by shipping, because I had never seen this before. I have had the gecko since she hatched in May of 2006, and cared for her weekly, at the very least. I have seen MBD in a newly aquired gecko, that was fine before being shipped, in the past. But how would she have the bruising on her head? I did not notice that when she left here, and it is easy to see even in the pics. So I realized this must have happened during shipping.

After reading the explanation about the purchase amount I understand why the replacement deals you are offering. The feet thing still throws me for a loop. Trauma and MBD are the only things that come to mind.

Sorry Dan, I was not trying to sound like a butt hole. But without knowing who the seller was I think most of us here were just trying to help protect Thad from getting jerked around. I apologize.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

I understand completely. I thought of MBD, but then the head trauma tells me otherwise. If it is MBD it certainly had not shown itself, before her being shipped. I feel really bad for her, and will be increasing my geckos calcium intake, just in case. I know that MBD does not happen overnight, but I do think that stress can help bring it on, or make it worse. She had not really snapped out of her winter eating mode, just yet, so maybe she was deficient. I think more than likely this poor girl got "beat up" in shipping , since there was nothing out of the ordinary when she left.

 

[OhioGecko]

Dan, I did not want to use your name but you are obviously OK with this which sets me at ease. Just so everyone knows I told Dan I was posting this and sent him the link to the thread. I did not feel comfortable making a decsion being so new to leos.

OK here is the post for the group female.
http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=17769

I revisited the post and see that the cost was indeed lowered for the group. I was going by the listing price which would be incorrect. That does change my view of the deal and I'm sorry I didn't realize that earlier.

Dan, can I just get a refund of $100. I would like to put this toward another Tremper Snow that is ready or close to breed. I do realize that I can get the leos that I want but the % is greatly lower and I would have alot I would have to prove out. Specifically if we get a Tremper. We don't know if it is a snow without proving it, which sets us back a year on our project. And gives alot of extra geckos that we don't neccessarily want.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Thad, nah no biggie, bad things happen sometimes. I have no reason to hide the fact, something went wrong. No problem, about the refund. Sorry for all of the trouble, hope the geckos do well for you.

 

[DLS Reptile]

I'll admit i was a little upset to see this too. I have seen many people neglect these little guys. There could be many, many possiblities for this and none of us should jump to conclusions. i do apologize dan for sounding like d-ck.

 

[bro paul]

I've seen some crazy things happen in shipping. Usually everything goes fine...but I've received geckos with broken limbs...and I have seen signs of MBD set in extremely quickly...due to stress. It seems like the wrong combo of stressors can just "suck" the calcium right out of these guys sometimes!!??