How I lost my Leo in 48 hours

FarAway9

New Member
Messages
9
Dear all,

I would like to tell you my story, it might help someone. Also any advice on the cause of this is welcomed, as my vet didn't do microscopy.
First of all let me explain that I live in Montenegro, and that vets here don't have many tools to diagnose and cure exotic pets.

So my leopard gecko was a male, chubby, good eater his meals were varied - mealworms, dubia roches, crickets, sometimes super worms, gut loaded. He had Ca without Ds, and vitamin powder. he would go to the dishes and licked the powder himself. UV which I kept on for few hours every day and he sometimes liked to bask sometimes not. Heat pads, warm side 32.2 Celsius, cold 23 Celsius. His substrate was mainly slate tiles, and dry moss. He had a humid hide. He actually had these terraces he could climb on and he used the ramps provided and was very active. I didn't note a single issue with him. He was with me for 5 years, a rescue situation, only once he was sick when I got him, had intestinal parasites, which were cleared.

So on 9th of June he shed. He had a bit of an issue with clogged femoral pores. Once was a bit inflamed so I proceed so give him 2 soaks and cleaned it. He didn't want to eat from the time he shed. I assumed cleaning of the femoral pores was stressful, but when day 6 came with no eating I was moderately worried. Leos sometimes don't eat and then pig out, this was the case with my leo. So I kept an eye on him. On day 7, I could hear him make a sound, it sounded like a sneeze. I never ever heard him make this sound, so I looked and he was normal, just licking his lips. he made just 2 of this sounds and he was OK rest of the day. Day 8, in the morning I heard the sound again and he vomited. In the vomit there was sfagnum moss. I was thinking impaction! He probably ate some moss while shedding, so I gave him 1 drop of olive oil and nice lukewarm soak. But he didn't look right. he kept his eyes mainly closed and head up. He mainly hanged out at moist hide or cold spot - not normal. He proceeded to vomit few more times, clear snot like stuff. I consulted with vet and he told me to give enrofloxacine, maybe the gut is irritated. So I gave dose 1 PO. During the night he vomited again, green mush, and then blood tinged snot again. Kept head high constantly. Day 9, I called the vet and got an appointment. He pooped. Poop was completely normal but with a lot of yellow mucus. Urates were white, chalky. Gave dose of Enrofloxacin. But until 12h that day, this day, he was gone. I brought him to the vet and asked for an autopsy. I wanted to know was it the moss or something else, what I did wrong.

The vet did the autopsy, he noted fat bodies in the belly, large ones. So no wasting away he was chubby. Gut was empty, not irritated, normal feces was waiting in intestine. Kidneys normal, testies normal. Liver normal, ischemic because there is blood in body cavities. He died of heart failure, but the cause of that were lungs. Lungs were angry deep red with many many dots on them, yellowish, like pus pockets. Tiny like grains of salt. Vet said this is a respiratory infection, a bad one. I was completely frozen. Before 9th of June he ate, poops were normal, always, he didn't have mucus around mouth, or in nose, he didn't "blow bubbles", he didn't breathe on open mouth, he was active, moved between warm and cold side. I never noted any issue with him. I must say I couldn't get it, I still can't get it. he is gone in just practically 48 hours.

I don't know which respiratory disease can kill this fast, or which one can have no symptoms...
I was googling all day today trying to figure this out. Mycobacterium causes these granules but they are supposed to start in liver, spleen and intestines' and then move to lungs. Also mycobacterium is supposed to cause waiting away of the animal... Can someone help me understand. I really want to understand what went wrong, and how, and what caused it. At least have a guess.

Thank you.
 

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acpart

Geck-cessories
Staff member
Messages
15,119
Location
Somerville, MA
I'm sorry for your loss. I'm not a vet and I don't have a diagnosis. I would imagine, though, that it's possible that he had a low level infection where he wasn't showing symptoms and the whole sphagnum moss thing exacerbated it and it blew up quickly. I am a speech therapist who deals with swallowing issues with humans. I don't know if it's possible that when he vomited, he aspirated some of the vomit that made the lung issue worse. Just a guess.

Aliza
 

FarAway9

New Member
Messages
9
I'm sorry for your loss. I'm not a vet and I don't have a diagnosis. I would imagine, though, that it's possible that he had a low level infection where he wasn't showing symptoms and the whole sphagnum moss thing exacerbated it and it blew up quickly. I am a speech therapist who deals with swallowing issues with humans. I don't know if it's possible that when he vomited, he aspirated some of the vomit that made the lung issue worse. Just a guess.

Aliza
I was trying to get opinion from other vets. I had a friend vet that works abroad and he told me that it is very unlikely that he had tuberculosis, and so far progressed, and didn't show any respiratory or gastro intestinal symptoms.
I tried to find and read every case study on line and they explain that nodules for lizards and snakes start in the liver, intestine, spleen, and then go to lungs, brain, bone marrow and skin. The disease is usually long, wasting away, and owners note something conclusive once the skin lesions are there.

I also still can't find any case where tuberculosis is described in leos.
He was considering maybe something more towards metabolic issues, and the lungs might had some calcifications or similar.

Out of precaution I tore down the whole terrarium and disposed of everything. I disinfected the insides multiple times. But I will never keep reptiles any more. Leopard geckos are one of the easiest reptiles to keep, and what ever I did I did something very wrong. Watching him suffer those 48 hours, and just before he died he actually came to me when I opened the terrarium. I was so surprised that I hoped he wanted to eat something but no, he just wanted a bit of a head scratch, and he want away. I can't risk it to do something wrong again.
 

FarAway9

New Member
Messages
9
Oh I forgot. He also bit me. Do you know should I get tested for TB? Or do reptile have mycoplasmosis that do not affect humans?
 

acpart

Geck-cessories
Staff member
Messages
15,119
Location
Somerville, MA
I doubt you have to worry about TB, but if it will make you feel better, get the test. I'm sorry this experience has made you feel that you don't want to keep reptiles anymore. Reptiles tend to mask any outward symptoms, I guess because in the wild a sick-acting reptile is easy prey for others. Sometimes a reptile has internal problems that have nothing to do with the care they're getting but they don't show up until the animal is really sick. It may not be anything you did or could have done different that would have changed this outcome.

Aliza
 

FarAway9

New Member
Messages
9
I doubt you have to worry about TB, but if it will make you feel better, get the test. I'm sorry this experience has made you feel that you don't want to keep reptiles anymore. Reptiles tend to mask any outward symptoms, I guess because in the wild a sick-acting reptile is easy prey for others. Sometimes a reptile has internal problems that have nothing to do with the care they're getting but they don't show up until the animal is really sick. It may not be anything you did or could have done different that would have changed this outcome.

Aliza
Thank you.
Unfortunately health workers here don't have PCR tests just a regular bood test to monitor recent exposure. But I will do it...
I bought him as an adult but I doubt he was old, he was probably just 8 years maximum when he died. Researching now for 2 days, reading studied, I find that reptiles will have an active mycobacteriosis only if their immune system collapsed. If it was in deed mycobacteriosis it is hard to think I did nothing wrong. I think it was his weight, that I never managed to keep down. I really don't want to cause suffering to another reptile with me being too soft and having a fat pet, which is type of pet abuse. It might be best to at least make a good long pause and think about what is the right pet for me.
 

astoppani

New Member
Messages
10
I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your gecko. But please do not beat yourself up about it. I have been where you are (not with a gecko, but other pets over the years) - it's normal to ask over and over could I have done something to prevent this or even did I cause this? But let me tell you that when I read your first post, my first thought was that this person could write a book on proper gecko care! You had already done so much to ensure that your gecko's care was as best as possible. As much as we try to make sure they live a good long life, sometimes things happen, and the cause is just impossible to figure out. A few years ago I had it happen with a horse, and I did as you are - consulted with vet, researched a million ways to Tuesday, and in the end, we just didn't know what caused the cascade of events that led to his passing. We knew the mechanics that lead to his death, just as you know now of the lung infection, but we didn't know the CAUSE, and I wanted to know the CAUSE. Eventually I had to just accept that I will never know for sure. I do have two other horses, and the need to know the cause was partially driven by my need to keep them safe. It has been about 10 years, and these two are now 29 and 27 and doing just fine, so I am more confident that it's not something fundamental in my care of them. Still it's easy to fall into the "what if I had done this or that differently, would it have made a difference?" Ultimately I need to accept the uncertainty, know in my heart that I cared for him as best I could, and dwell on my loving memories of him. I encourage you to try to do the same. My heart goes out to you!
 

FarAway9

New Member
Messages
9
I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your gecko. But please do not beat yourself up about it. I have been where you are (not with a gecko, but other pets over the years) - it's normal to ask over and over could I have done something to prevent this or even did I cause this? But let me tell you that when I read your first post, my first thought was that this person could write a book on proper gecko care! You had already done so much to ensure that your gecko's care was as best as possible. As much as we try to make sure they live a good long life, sometimes things happen, and the cause is just impossible to figure out. A few years ago I had it happen with a horse, and I did as you are - consulted with vet, researched a million ways to Tuesday, and in the end, we just didn't know what caused the cascade of events that led to his passing. We knew the mechanics that lead to his death, just as you know now of the lung infection, but we didn't know the CAUSE, and I wanted to know the CAUSE. Eventually I had to just accept that I will never know for sure. I do have two other horses, and the need to know the cause was partially driven by my need to keep them safe. It has been about 10 years, and these two are now 29 and 27 and doing just fine, so I am more confident that it's not something fundamental in my care of them. Still it's easy to fall into the "what if I had done this or that differently, would it have made a difference?" Ultimately I need to accept the uncertainty, know in my heart that I cared for him as best I could, and dwell on my loving memories of him. I encourage you to try to do the same. My heart goes out to you!
I can't even start to tell you how much your message means to me. It puts things in to perspective as, exactly as you said, I am obsessing over the cause non stop. Thank you.
 

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