Im Building a Natural desert viv for a leo...

Dendro_Dave

Mad Scientist
Messages
33
Location
Tulsa OK
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Thats glowing calci sand siliconed in the cracks. A black light will come on for an hour or 2 at lights off to increase the glowing effect. After that red or blue moon lights will take over the night time lighting. May install red moonlights to light up the inside of the Hides on each side also.
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Here is the roughed in layout. Little rock mosaic island will have the siliconed sand to add the glowing effect to parts of the floor area. The rest of the floor will be planted with various succulants.

I believe i can get moss to survive near the pond, the rest of the floor will probably be carpeted with tropical moss pillows also, but i expect them to die. A fan on a seconds timer will periodically come on and blow warm air down from the lights across the dry side to the humid side where another fan on seconds time will suck the air up and warm air from the lights along with it and blow it out of the tank. This should help to keep the humid side cooler and prevent a humid micro climate from forming on the floor of the dry side. Also the dry side floor slopes down to the wet side, so its closer to the lights (warmer) and will dry out faster.

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Here is the dry hide cave. That corner is all styrofoam and rock, so that little humidity will be in that area, and is basically the only artificial part of the tank. The top cave part is removable for cleaning. The fan periodically blowing down from that area should take care of any residual humidity. A heat mat on back glass extending about half way across the tank will be the main heating element for that side of the tank. Depending on how that works out, i may add some heating elements, a lager or smaller mat...we'll see.
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Here is the pond and humid hide side. The pond wiill have an air line to periodically produce bubbles and encourage drinking along with helping to oxygenate the water there. I've use this set up minus the air line in tropical vivaria, and water quality is good enough to support a few tropical fish, especially when the feature is planted with small aquatics like ricca, java fern, anubis, micro sword and some other very small leafed aquatic plant i have.

Under the stump on the left is the humid hide. Its currently lined with coir (coconut husks) and dried green moss thats held down with slate to keep the Leo from burrowing down to the false bottom area. I can add/substract moss above the slate as needed. The stump has also been made into a planter above that so i can add a low growing high light succulant up there.
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Here is more progress, i still have more substrate to add, especially on the dry side, up to about an inch or so to the cave entrance. I may use the cocomats as a next to last layer except near the pond and just lay moss pillows up there to dry out. I'll hold them down with the glowing rock mosaic islands or other rocks, or use rocks glued ontop of pegs pushed through into the soil to hold them in place depending on how destructive the Leo is. If necessary i believe i can low down a layer of mess over the top that the moss will grow or atleast poke through and wont be visible, if so i could cover with some dry spagnum or whatever...we'll see some experimentation tweaking may be needed here depending on the Leo's behavior.

Overall its a pretty experimental setup i guess. Basically im going for a rocky desert scrub land that transitions to a nearly dried up stream or spring area... i think i can pull it off and as i found out from a guy on another forum it has been done with sucess before.

"A guy named Patrick Huddleson did something very similar with a 75 gallon tank. In The Herpetoculture of Leopard Geckos on page 20-21 Ron Tremper has a very short story about it and one small picture. From what it looks like, he has about a three inch layer of gravel for drainage, about a two inch layer of coir or peat (i cant tell which) for humidity and egg laying, then a layer of sandy soil that looks to start out around two inches in the front and slopes up to maybe five inches in the back. The background is large pieces of stone attached to the back, and the whole tank has large rocks arranged to created ledges and crevices. He also planted some desert plants. That tank housed two adults which bred and their eggs hatched in the vivarium. After two years when he "ended his experiment," the tank contained the original pair plus sixteen of their offspring ranging from hatchlings to adults. RT sums the story about the tank up by saying "It's all pretty fascinating stuff!" I just wish he would have devoted a little more of his book to examining that tank. This goes against the current trend in leopard gecko keeping however, mostly because people who try "naturalistic" vivaria dont do much more than dump in some sand"

I looked this up on amazon and was able to search inside the book and read the article for free ;) Very encouraging.

So yep thats what we got so far, should be finished by a week except for adding some of the lights and heating equipment, oh and a Leo or 2. Probably going with a super snow or mack snow to compliment the decor...and they are my favs anyways.
 

froggz

New Member
Messages
138
Location
Iowa
I'm almost positive that Java Moss would work well for your pond. I have a plaudarium for a frog and the entire land area is covered in java moss. Almost all of my aquariums with fish have it as well. It can take a while to get settled, but once it does it pretty much takes off. I've resorted to giving it up for free to friends lol.

The viv looks great! I've had good luck with aloe, hawthoria, and sanserveria hahnii in the desert type viv's I have. The viv's I have are for diurnal lizards, and they both have high output uvb tubes. The sanserveria, mother in law's tounge , hahnii is a very cute dwarf version that doesn't get over 8 inches tall, but once its established it will produce pups quite regularly.

Nice work!
 
S

SLY

Guest
Excellent job. I've been waiting to see a pond done before I try it. Any more details on how it was done?
 

Dendro_Dave

Mad Scientist
Messages
33
Location
Tulsa OK
Hey thx for the kind words everyone.

I think i've got a couple of haworthia and other succulents, i'll look into those sanserveria or however its spelled...size was a concern with those, but if there are some smaller types i might add those.

The way i do my ponds typically is to section off a corner of a tank with a suitable piece of drift wood like manzanita, though the piece in this tank is mopani or whatever from zoomed...we'll see how it works. I cut my false bottom to fit around the wood then use black waterfall foam usually available at lowes(its just like great stuff but black and 3 times the cost ;) and silicone (brown or black usually but if i think i can hide it all i'll use clear or white sometimes rather then run to the store. Anyways attach the false bottom edge to the wood that way and also the wood to the tank.

Then u can use a coat hanger or something and slide it along the bottom glass and under the wood to punch holes through the foam to let more water from the false bottom in but really it will seep through the wook anyways and the wood acts like a filter kinda, so its up to you...im into dart frogs so its important to make sure any holes in the wood or that arise while trying to seal it to the tank and false bottom are filled in so tadpoles or even frogs cant make it under the false bottom. I try to have the wood rise above the false botttom atleast half an inch to form a lip or barrier for soil so you can build up a shore line.

Plants in the tank and in the pond itself along with the soil and wood which provides alot of surface area for physical and biological filtration keep the water quality good enough for tropical fish if the pond is big enough to support them. Also doing a water feature this way having the resivoir be the false bottom cuts way down on how often you have to add water to replace that lost from evaporation. You can add an air line under the wood and foam and soil or false bottom up behind the background to add a air pump and produce a bubbling spring effect...which should encourage lizards to drink from the area. Also you can take the pond all the way to the back of the tank you want and use various pump or filter types to set up a waterfall. Or you can drill a hole in a store bought waterfall and mount it in the tank and seal the false bottom around it like you did the drift wood and allow the waterfall to draw its water from the false bottom thus cutting way way down on how often you need to top that off. Im sure you could do it in way the whole thing is removable also for pump changes if you were really crafty...or go with an exoterra where u can just pull the top off to change the pump ;)

I'll be using fans and lights and a partial screen top to compensate for the humidity generated by the pond. ... and heat mats at substrate level NOT water level to along with lights to heat the tank. As you can see its high on the dry side with much deeper substrate (should drain and heat up faster being closer to lights and all) and low on the humid pond side (should stay several degrees cooler and more humid ofcourse).
I have some moss arriving today that will be the top layer of the substrate in most areas except around some glowing slate mosaic sections like the background between sections of moss or on top of the moss in some areas.
 
S

SLY

Guest
Thanks a lot for the detail of the pond...I really appreciate it.

If you don't mind, could you ballpark the cost of the setup?
 

Dendro_Dave

Mad Scientist
Messages
33
Location
Tulsa OK
Thanks a lot for the detail of the pond...I really appreciate it.

If you don't mind, could you ballpark the cost of the setup?

Hard to say what the cost is, i had alot of the stuff already but i'll try to ballpark it.

probably 40 in wood, slate is expensive per pound, i off set some of that cost by using slate tiles 5 for 6 bucks, but still spent like $90 in natural slate rock pieces at $3 per pound (kinda high). Atleast $40 in moss by the time im done if not more. $12 for the lighting board the false bottom is made of and $3-5 in pvc pieces used as the supports. Tank was $40 from *****s $1 a gallon sale ;)

um $11 for cave that i siliconed slate peices over. And probably $40-50 in various substrates, coco bark, sand, glowing calci sand. gravel, decorative gravel, excavator clay (which was probably a waste since i just ended up mixing it into the rest of the soil), some type rainforrest substrate walmart here has started selling in the pet department and peat as organic componets.

$24 for 2 cans of black waterfall foam, and $7 ish in silicone. $30-40 in plants so far...think thats about it, so thats about....drum roll please!....$350ish???

If i had another tank for same price i could probably do it cheaper and more efficiently now that i've done this one.
 

Dendro_Dave

Mad Scientist
Messages
33
Location
Tulsa OK
Ok i got most of the planting and tankscaping done, little more on the wet side to do, i need more moss....and i got some clean up work. Suffered a small setback with the false bottom, in pressing down the moss i cracked or somehow bowed the middle of the false bottom on the front, but i think its just on the front right at the glass so even if fill the false bottom all the way and flood that lil part it should be ok, i have a layer of gravel as the first substrate layer anyways.

I made the dry side pretty high, to facilitate drying but the soil will settle some im sure. Should help the humidity stay on the left and the dry side heat up more too while keeping the humid side more in the 70's range.

Please keep in mind i expect most of the moss to die on the dry side so forgive the tropical look.

Ok pic time!
Got a crappy shot of the glow effect, i'll try for better shot later. Have a lil clean up to do still, wiping excess off the rocks and whatnot. But i got it so most of the partially loose sand in the silicone is all gone...so whats there should be stuck there good.

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Ok here is daylight....like i said, forgive the tropical look, moss expected to die

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I think im gonna try to squeez in one more hide in the middle, kinda a warm humid hide. So it will be cool humid, warm humid, warm dry.
Basically the entire left humid side has yet to be planted or mossed in. pond isnt filled in or planted yet...full of crap.
 
Last edited:

gothra

Happy Gecko Family
Messages
3,790
Location
HK
Wow, that is amazing! I have to say I like the tropical look too!!
 

Dendro_Dave

Mad Scientist
Messages
33
Location
Tulsa OK
Wow, that is amazing! I have to say I like the tropical look too!!

Well i have to admit i like the look too...but i want most of the floor to be dry to their touch, so with the open top, depth of the substrate and dry air flow (with fans) i expect most of that moss to brown up. Its ok if the wet side stays green, i hope it does and expect it will.

Anyways here are a few shots of the rock islands on the floor, day vs night effect....

island 1.
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Island 2...
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Island 3...
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I'll try to get a better shot of the overall effect soon.
 

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