It was GREEN/Black

[prettyinpink]

UGH since I can't edit, I'm basically color blind because he's not too green looking. So I guess I was wrong when I said he was green

 

[prettyinpink]

OH! Also what do you guys think about the mold? I'm just SO worried it'll do something to him health wise, like shorten his life span or something...Do you think it'll be alright, and nothing to worry about?

 

[prettyinpink]

Can't edit again

It wasn't 'live' mold but it's mold spots - from not cleaning the container in time it stained it.

 

[Reborn]

He is olive color lol so green is pretty close. We all know what ya mean;D I wouldnt worry about the mold...there not stupid and will eat it. If its in the food chances are thats why hes on the thinner side. Hes not eating because of the mold. Id report it thats for sure:/ nothing deserves to live in poor conditions. As i said before why i'm using paper towel is because of mold. I didnt notice it right away and my Doshi wasnt eatingD: after i found it and cleaned/removed it he started eating up right again. Im not a mold expert so i dunno for sure. Quaranteening him and watching him for signs of illness is the only way to know for sure but from the mold i had(eco-earth with wood) My guy was just fine after i cleaned it up

 

[Reborn]

There is no dead mold unless its spotless. The tiniest bit can bring the mold back so it may look like its been cleaned but honestly i dont think they took the time to disinfect it.

 

[sablebeauty]

I think her shirt kinda gives away where he's from

Petsmart? Lol -- also from the adverts in the background. My petsmart doesn't carry Crested Geckos Oh well LOL! They don't even carry Crested food, either. Blah. I checked the last time I went.

 

[darkridder]

About these green geckos....from a pangean here....lol I didnt see your thread over there.

These are not rare, not because they are so spectacular and hard to breed, they just are not bred due to the fact not many people want them. This gecko falls into the olive/buckskin morph, considered a low grade morph. Many people like them. including myself, but the fact is youre looking at a gecko that may sell for $50 as an adult with outstanding head and crest structure, many people with the babies end up selling them for $15 or less, or giving them away for free since there is little demand for them. This is why they are so "rare", people dont make it a point to breed olives and buckskins there is no demand for them. And there is a whole bunch of politics behind breeding and what is good quality to breed, and its a good read so if you are interested here it is, kinda explains a little bit why people dont breed these guys
http://www.pangeareptile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32241&highlight=supply+demand

I personally wouldnt call him a bi color, from the pics he looks more like an olive tiger, you can esp tell that in post 45 the first one. Bi colors normally are a patternless animal, and their dorsal is clean from pattern. His title would be olive tiger, his traits would be furred with fringe (although these are not put into the title of the animals morph). He also is not a dalmatian, those are not dalmatian spots. You can tell this by how the scales are raised and white, dal spots are not white raised scales. This doesnt exactly have a term yet as far as traits go.

He is a cutie though!
(ps I am thongwedgie on pangea)

 

[Reborn]

About these green geckos....from a pangean here....lol I didnt see your thread over there.

These are not rare, not because they are so spectacular and hard to breed, they just are not bred due to the fact not many people want them. This gecko falls into the olive/buckskin morph, considered a low grade morph. Many people like them. including myself, but the fact is youre looking at a gecko that may sell for $50 as an adult with outstanding head and crest structure, many people with the babies end up selling them for $15 or less, or giving them away for free since there is little demand for them. This is why they are so "rare", people dont make it a point to breed olives and buckskins there is no demand for them. And there is a whole bunch of politics behind breeding and what is good quality to breed, and its a good read so if you are interested here it is, kinda explains a little bit why people dont breed these guys
http://www.pangeareptile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32241&highlight=supply+demand

I personally wouldnt call him a bi color, from the pics he looks more like an olive tiger, you can esp tell that in post 45 the first one. Bi colors normally are a patternless animal, and their dorsal is clean from pattern. His title would be olive tiger, his traits would be furred with fringe (although these are not put into the title of the animals morph). He also is not a dalmatian, those are not dalmatian spots. You can tell this by how the scales are raised and white, dal spots are not white raised scales. This doesnt exactly have a term yet as far as traits go.

He is a cutie though!
(ps I am thongwedgie on pangea)

Ill read the thread in a moment but WHO decides whats worthy to breed and not? I know with leos its all about producing babies that no one else has(like RADARS and dreamsciles(tho both are more common). I dunno the crestie market, im still learning there genetics. But why arent they in demand? If its the darker ones that are sot after then wouldnt he be a stepping stone in producing that? again i dunno crestie genetics. He has something that doesnt even have a name yet(the white). Not something people are looking to do? Isnt it possible to line bred that so the body has the color all over? Again dont know crestie genetics.

 

[darkridder]

They are not in high demand because it is simply what people dont care much for. Is there a giant demand for normal leos het for nothing? The fact is crested genetics are not easily mapped out (had you read the entire thread, you could easily realize this, it is long, but a good read). You cant expect to put two reds together and get reds, you could end up with oddballs. Like 2 years ago I put two blondes together, they produced nearly black and yellow geckos, makes sense although I wanted blondes, and they produced on almost full red pinner...ok random. Now my two reds, they produce nothing but reds and thats because they come from red lines, place them with that green, you may end up with a few reds, but plenty of buckskins.

The reason for not breeding him is kind of this, you dont know his genetics. It would be one thing to buy Matts gecko and buy another nearly black gecko from dark lines also in order to produce dark babies, but that petstore crested, you dont know its background, it may come from a long line of buckskins, or it may be an oddball produced by a yellow gecko. Since the price of cresteds as dramatically gone down, people have become even more picky about what is bred as the more and more run of the mill geckos produced, the more and more the price of even higher end animals goes down because everyone breeds them because of ease of breeding. Nobody has the right tot ell you what you can and can not breed, but there are many factors to a crested gecko, verse a leo really has one. Cresteds you have not only color to consider, is that morph in demand? But you also have head structure, people prefer shorter snouted cresteds over longer snouted. Then you also have crest structure, does it have good crests or bad crests? Then lineage is a big thing also, yes there is always the shot in the dark beautiful gecko that you have no idea its background and it produce nice geckos, but if you have something particular in mind to produce (to which you should if youre a breeder, you shouldnt just put two animals together and hope for the best), so with a goal, you should work torwards that instead of just plopping two animals together.

So if your goal is to breed this animal, my suggestion, buy the best that you can. Most every breeder has a petstore animal in their stock, sometimes you go in for some earthworms see one and you just cant live without it, I did that with Naruto, but my store also gets directly from Repashy and they still had the paper work on that shipment so I do know he came from a good breeder. But I have also spent a good penny on some of his girlfriends in order to produce nice animals. So basically you need to balance it out, if you took him to breed him, invest in a high quality female coming from a good lineage known to produce dark geckos. That is all I am saying. If youre not going to invest in the time and money to produce a quality gecko even if it is an olive, then simply dont breed him and make him a beautiful pet. The point of breeding isnt just to produce an animal, it is to produce the best that you can.

 

[Reborn]

They are not in high demand because it is simply what people dont care much for. Is there a giant demand for normal leos het for nothing? The fact is crested genetics are not easily mapped out (had you read the entire thread, you could easily realize this, it is long, but a good read). You cant expect to put two reds together and get reds, you could end up with oddballs. Like 2 years ago I put two blondes together, they produced nearly black and yellow geckos, makes sense although I wanted blondes, and they produced on almost full red pinner...ok random. Now my two reds, they produce nothing but reds and thats because they come from red lines, place them with that green, you may end up with a few reds, but plenty of buckskins.

The reason for not breeding him is kind of this, you dont know his genetics. It would be one thing to buy Matts gecko and buy another nearly black gecko from dark lines also in order to produce dark babies, but that petstore crested, you dont know its background, it may come from a long line of buckskins, or it may be an oddball produced by a yellow gecko. Since the price of cresteds as dramatically gone down, people have become even more picky about what is bred as the more and more run of the mill geckos produced, the more and more the price of even higher end animals goes down because everyone breeds them because of ease of breeding. Nobody has the right tot ell you what you can and can not breed, but there are many factors to a crested gecko, verse a leo really has one. Cresteds you have not only color to consider, is that morph in demand? But you also have head structure, people prefer shorter snouted cresteds over longer snouted. Then you also have crest structure, does it have good crests or bad crests? Then lineage is a big thing also, yes there is always the shot in the dark beautiful gecko that you have no idea its background and it produce nice geckos, but if you have something particular in mind to produce (to which you should if youre a breeder, you shouldnt just put two animals together and hope for the best), so with a goal, you should work torwards that instead of just plopping two animals together.

So if your goal is to breed this animal, my suggestion, buy the best that you can. Most every breeder has a petstore animal in their stock, sometimes you go in for some earthworms see one and you just cant live without it, I did that with Naruto, but my store also gets directly from Repashy and they still had the paper work on that shipment so I do know he came from a good breeder. But I have also spent a good penny on some of his girlfriends in order to produce nice animals. So basically you need to balance it out, if you took him to breed him, invest in a high quality female coming from a good lineage known to produce dark geckos. That is all I am saying. If youre not going to invest in the time and money to produce a quality gecko even if it is an olive, then simply dont breed him and make him a beautiful pet. The point of breeding isnt just to produce an animal, it is to produce the best that you can.

I hadnt read the thread when i responded now i have and it was a good read. Yeah the genetic thing would be a shot in the dark and theres no way a petsmart of all places would buy anything from actual breeders. The breeding would come down to Pink as she is the one considering it. Hes still freaking cute regardless of his lineage:main_thumbsup:
ps i didnt know they were bred for shorter snouts0.o Now im gonna look around again lol and see Thats so odd. Is there any particular reason to breed a shorter snout?

 

[darkridder]

lol like I said there are many factors to crested geckos, most people just look at the surface, what "they" think is cute, but what they think is cute doesnt mean everyone else thinks is cute enough to buy, is a olive tiger cute? Yes, is it cute enough for me to buy? No, but they are still cute! And many people, and I have been victim to this myself in my early years, I get so hung up on the color and pattern I forget to look at the other key parts. It is all about balance, there is nothing wrong with a beautiful crested gecko with meh crests breeding so long as you are finding him/her a mate with good head and crest structure to even it out. It is about stepping back and really thinking about it before jumping into it. On pangea us older members are often considered "mean", to which I can be when provoked, but the advice we give is from our own mistakes, we try to push people in the direction the hobby is going, and quite often people dont like that advice, or they feel like everyone is ganging up on them. It isnt to be mean, it is to try and produce the best that can be produced.

Kinda like with I think it is enigmas you have to worry about the head tilting thing right? If your plan was to breed these, would you not go with breeder stock not known to produce this right? The same kinda for cresteds except it is on a cosmetic level, you want to produce beautiful healthy enigmas, you buy nicer animals from good stock which may cost you a few more pennies, but youre doing it the right way. The same with the cresteds, if youre going to do it, just do it right. It is understandable it can take years to perfect something, I have done this myself in trying to make something in particular, it is time consuming and money consuming. So if the goal is to produce a black gecko, by all means go for it, but invest in quality.

And I am glad you get it now Crested gecko genetics is just plain confusing, you get spots when you dont want them, or when you do want them you dont get enough, reds produce blondes, creams produce yellows, it can be down right frustrating! Esp when you have no genetic background on the animal, ie like the gecko in question, odds are high they use a reptile distro who buys from whoever they can buy cheap from and odds are high it is nobody special, the same goes for Pet Supplies Plus, they buy from a reptile supplier, and no special breeder sells their animals to them, they get from whoever (I can tell you that because I worked there for 9 years). Petco is the only one who uses *some* big name breeders, and not all stores do, some areas will use one breed, another area uses other breeders, and I am sure there are some stores that use reptile suppliers also, I am just lucky mine buys directly and occasionally you can get a diamond in the rough. So odds are much smaller of producing something in particular from pet store animals, as beautiful as they can be sometimes.

 

[prettyinpink]

So if your goal is to breed this animal, my suggestion, buy the best that you can. Most every breeder has a petstore animal in their stock, sometimes you go in for some earthworms see one and you just cant live without it, I did that with Naruto, but my store also gets directly from Repashy and they still had the paper work on that shipment so I do know he came from a good breeder. But I have also spent a good penny on some of his girlfriends in order to produce nice animals. So basically you need to balance it out, if you took him to breed him, invest in a high quality female coming from a good lineage known to produce dark geckos. That is all I am saying. If youre not going to invest in the time and money to produce a quality gecko even if it is an olive, then simply dont breed him and make him a beautiful pet. The point of breeding isnt just to produce an animal, it is to produce the best that you can.

Wow, thanks for all the great info.

Yes, I was planning on breeding him. If I did, I would of course invest in a high quality female. He probably wouldn't be bred for a bit.

Exactly what you said what actually what I was thinking and why I haven't gotten him yet, do people want this morph?

Like I said earlier the pics on post 45 are not accurate of his color at all. I shouldn't even have posted them...I don't normally use that camera but mine is dead.
He looks just like this one on Pangea...I showed this to someone else who was with me at the store and he agrees that he looks just like him.
http://www.pangeareptile.com/store/crested-gecko-st17.html
Now, I looked at the price and am wondering somethings. Is it good that's a high price, is it hard to breed that morph, is it really that rare BUT do people want it. I would think if people wouldn't want it...it wouldn't be that highly priced.

I was always planning on getting cresties in the future, so when I saw him I thought it would be nice to have something 'different/rare'. But if he's nothing out of the ordinary, I'm not sure if it's worth picking him up...as much as I'd love to care for him.

Also, I did look up buckskin...they're A LOT lighter than he was.

 

[prettyinpink]

Esp when you have no genetic background on the animal, ie like the gecko in question, odds are high they use a reptile distro who buys from whoever they can buy cheap from and odds are high it is nobody special,

Looks like you're thinking the same way I am. Which is why he isn't here right now

I'm just trying to figure out if the demand is high. I personally don't like that color at all (like I said earlier)... but I like it because it's different. But a few members I have talked to said they love it. So I'm not sure.

 

[darkridder]

Pictures say a thousand words....could you ever get that price? No for 2 reasons, one terrible pics...lol but two name has everything to do with it, Matt is a well known breeder, he is able to get higher prices for animals that say someone like you or I, and one step higher I can get higher prices over you because I have been doing it longer, name has alot to do with everything. I may have a gecko that looks exactly like one he is selling for $200, but I may only get $100 as I am a nobody compared to him. To me that is a dark brown gecko, to which buckskins can vary from a deep dark brown, to a light brown, every "black" gecko I have ever seen has either been a dark grey or a dark brown buckskin. It is a stepping stone, and people are trying to produce a pure black crested, which is funny because more than likely when these guys were first bred, that dark brown color was more than likely a dime a dozen, now people find them "rare" and they cost more...lol I think in the right hand a gecko like the one on pangea could be used to go in the right direction, if a suitable mate was found.

But like you, he is cute but not what I personally would breed. If you dont care much for it, right there is your answer, dont breed it. I was breeding pinners, but they didnt do much for me, so I sold them off, why produce something that doesnt tickle me pink? It is also why I dont work with creamsicles, for one thing everyones "creamsicle" they show isnt really one, either it isnt bright enough orange, or is too yellow. But to me even the true ones do nothing for me, I prefer cream on cream. So when breeding cresteds it is somewhat two fold, breed what you like, and breed what others like. THe reasoning is why breed something nobody is going to want to buy? Then you will be over ran with babies. But dont just breed something because others like it, if you dont like dalmatians then just dont breed them. It is somewhat a give and take.

 

[prettyinpink]

It's not that I don't like him. I like him because he's different...I'm not going to pick up a crested that I don't like. Just like why I won't buy certain leos, because I personally don't like them...even though people are crazy over them.

 

[Reborn]

Kinda like with I think it is enigmas you have to worry about the head tilting thing right? If your plan was to breed these, would you not go with breeder stock not known to produce this right? The same kinda for cresteds except it is on a cosmetic level, you want to produce beautiful healthy enigmas, you buy nicer animals from good stock which may cost you a few more pennies, but youre doing it the right way. The same with the cresteds, if youre going to do it, just do it right. It is understandable it can take years to perfect something, I have done this myself in trying to make something in particular, it is time consuming and money consuming. So if the goal is to produce a black gecko, by all means go for it, but invest in quality.
QUOTE]

Just wanted to point out one thing here. Enigmas can show no signs what so ever for years before turning into terrible spinners...Or they can be terrible spinners and then suddenly just stop. Enigma means mystery and that is what they are. I personally love what they do for the morphs. But yes when buying them i ask a billion and one questions about the lines they come from and how bad there parents were and such. If they spin i do look else where.

With this gecko in question. Im curious now what would be considered a good cross for him? With unknonw lineage and all. And your right Pink he doesnt look like a buck skin to me either.

 

[darkridder]

The point about the enigma isnt about the coloring for them, or what they can produce, the point of bringing them up is getting them from a quality line not known for the spinning thing. Even at a reduced price, a knowledgeable breeder would look elsewhere to buy from stock not known to do this. The way it relates to crested geckos like I said is cosmetic as they are a species not prone to diseases or genetic issues like the spinning. Instead people look for crest, head and morph/coloring. Just like you try not to buy an animal from a line known to produce it, good crested breeders try to buy from lines who try to work towards not only nice colors, but nice heads also. Make sense? I dont know if I worded that weird or not..lol

As I said, it isnt about liking him or not liking him, he is a cte gecko, but is he cute enough to breed? Would you like to produce geckos like him? If you like him just because he is neat, keep him as a pet, but be prepared if you want to breed him for geckos that look like him, or worse than him...or better than him...lol Like I said I dont care much for pinners, they are beautiful in their own right, but for me, not something I want to produce.

As for what would be good for him. Depends on your goal. Myself I would put him with a tiger, or a super brindle, get his morph to really pop out, right now his tiger markings are pretty faint, but there. Some people really like tigers, others do not, but if the pattern is there and is really good, people do like them. If breeding was in his future, a gecko like on Matt's website would be good. But you would have to beware, there are a few breeders out there who say they have "black" or close to black geckos, and then you realize they are altered pics...the one breeder has rather obviously altered pics, and a while thread on it on the boi, ect. But like I said with his background a mystery, who knows what he could produce, he could have came from high end parents and was an oddball produced by them. One thing I would suggest is start him with only one high end female, the reason being is if lets say she comes from dark lines and they produce random geckos, you know he isnt the male for the job, so instead of producing 24-26 geckos of pure average randomness, you would produce more like 12-16, a much more manageable number.

 

[prettyinpink]

Right, I was thinking the same thing. If I get him a high quality female I can still get some nice babies.

I was thinking about that too. As in if I saw a female like him in a petstore. Then I wouldn't know EITHER of their lines.

 

[prettyinpink]

Lol I missed this part

"Is there a giant demand for normal leos het for nothing?" Acutally yes, there is. Normal leos are so rare and a lot of breeders have been looking for them and will usually pick them up if they can find them.

 

[prettyinpink]

UGH! I hate that I can't edit.

As for this crestie I pointed out here http://www.pangeareptile.com/store/crested-gecko-st17.html I wasn't asking if I could get that much for him/his babies. That's not what my point was. I was asking if they're actually wanted based on that high price, usually (on leos) high priced means they're either hard to produce or people like them.

As for crappy pics, yes I know my pictures were crap. But I wasn't trying to make them look good. I don't take crappy pictures