Leo X AFT, The Final Debate.

[Brewster320]

Ok I'm not interested in trying this cross so no one yell at me, but I have heard so many things about this weather its possible or not. I'm heard they will no interbreed, they'll breed but won't produce any eggs, they'll breed but only produce fertile eggs, they'll produce eggs but the embroys die before they can hatch, they'll hatch but don't live long after that, and that it has been done with success. Whats the real answer? I don't really want to start the whole hybrid debate on here but if you have something you want to say then I'm not going to try to stop you from saying it. I do like hybrids (don't kill me) but I believe in correctly labeling things and not breeding animals with vastly different care requirements such as this potential cross. I just want to know inorder to quench my own curiousity. Thanks

 

[cassadaga]

I don't believe it's possible. They look and act very similar, but they're not even in the same genus. I wouldn't be suprised to see them try, but any eggs would be infertile.

Although, ball pythons and blood pythons have been hybridized, and so have burms and retics, I think they're more closely related.

 

[Brewster320]

Yes but in reptiles for some reason its common for hybrids between animals in different genuses. Corn snakes have been bred to king snakes, milk snakes, gopher/bull/pine snakes, and even old world rat snakes such as the blue beauty, russian, dione, and japanese rat snakes. Then ball pythons have been bred with bloods, angolans, burms, carpet pythons, and even the woma which is so distantly related it doesn't even have heat pits. Even in the wild hybrids between eastern milk snakes X black rat snakes and cali kings x gopher snakes have been documented. And believe it or not but most of these hybrids are fertile and can produce offspring with each other, its parent species, and other species. So where leopards and AFTs are so closely related I'd seem likely. I think its odd how snakes so geneticly differnt and geographicaly isolated can interbred and produce healthy fertle offspring but a Leo and a AFT being so closely related can't.

 

[herpencounter]

...they'll hatch but don't live long after that...

There have been a few (very few) that get them to live 1-2 weeks but nothing longer then that.

Most eggs are infertile and the ones that are fertile most never last longer then a few weeks.
I did some research on this a while back and there was one guy that had been trying for a while and had some hatch out... I cant find the site now >.<

Personally I have no problems with hybrids, but if some one is successful and major problems arise (as babies or adults) I don’t think it should be done.

 

[Brewster320]

There have been a few (very few) that get them to live 1-2 weeks but nothing longer then that.

Most eggs are infertile and the ones that are fertile most never last longer then a few weeks.
I did some research on this a while back and there was one guy that had been trying for a while and had some hatch out... I cant find the site now >.<

Personally I have no problems with hybrids, but if some one is successful and major problems arise (as babies or adults) I don’t think it should be done.

Interesting, thanks for the infomation, and on the last bit I absolutely agree with you. If the animal is going stuffer due to the combination it should definately not be done, very well said. If you ever do find that site I'd be very interested in seeing it, thank you.

 

[cassadaga]

Then ball pythons have been bred with bloods, angolans, burms, carpet pythons, and even the woma which is so distantly related it doesn't even have heat pits.

I know bloods have been done, and angolans is fairly believable to me, but do you have any links with info on ball/burm, ball/carpet, and ball/woma hybrids?

 

[Halley]

There was a LONG thread on this a while back...

 

[Lena]

I know I started a big thread about this a long time ago.

Still waiting to see that AFTxLeo hybrid!! I'd personally love to see one, so long as it's healthy and functional.

 

[cassadaga]

I was able to find info on all those ball hybrids, and more! Wow, I had no idea. I really actually like the Wall (woma/ball), freak of nature that it is.

Anyone who wants to see:
http://www.herpcenter.com/snakes-general/15710-hybrid-pythons.html

 

[Brewster320]

I know bloods have been done, and angolans is fairly believable to me, but do you have any links with info on ball/burm, ball/carpet, and ball/woma hybrids?

The first one is the Burmball (burmese python x ball python), and its made by using a large male ball and a small female burmese. from what i've heard they stay in the ball python size range.

The next one is the Carpal or car-Bomb (carpet python x ball python). The first picture are of some hatchlings the next is of some 08's next to and 07.

This is the Coma (carpet python x woma python).

And this is the Wall (woma python X ball python). First created by NERDs a few years back.

 

[vctkiller]

Woah i love the coloration and all but the car-bomb kinda scares me with the color.

 

[Baoh]

Plenty of rumor of this or that. No photographs that I have seen.

 

[Riyo]

Off topic, as I have no idea about the Leo x AFT cross...but WOW those snakes are wild!

 

[cassadaga]

There may be some reason pythons are able to be hybridized easier than most other animals. There may not be, too.

The leo/AFT hybrid may be possible, but I think we'll only know for sure when it happens. If it never happens, I don't think that will prove anything.

 

[Nigel4less]

There may be some reason pythons are able to be hybridized easier than most other animals. There may not be, too.

The leo/AFT hybrid may be possible, but I think we'll only know for sure when it happens. If it never happens, I don't think that will prove anything.

Honestly I just think its a stupid Idea, its been tried DOZENS of times in the last 8-10 years. And the same result is either the eggs aren't fertile or the babies hatch and die within 24 hours.

 

[Gregg M]

I should try it just to see what happens... If it is living in my collection, I can breed it, no doubt...

This way I can post my findings for GF to see... If it works out, cool... If not, no harm done, right???

 

[mynewturtle]

Gregg, I'd love to see you do it. Keep us updated on every step of the way. I want to try it but just really haven't gotten around too it.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

In the 13 years I have been working with geckos, I know of hundreds of people who have tried to cross a leopard gecko with a fat-tail gecko. I have heard that they will sometimes actually breed, but no eggs or offspring were ever produced.

Think about it... they are not even the same specie. The come from completely different continents and hemispheres. Just because they look similar does not mean that they are genetically compatible.

Good luck, Gregg!

 

[Gregg M]

Think about it... they are not even the same specie. The come from completely different continents and hemispheres. Just because they look similar does not mean that they are genetically compatible.

Good luck, Gregg!

The same can be said for some other well known crosses in the reptile hobby...
Anyway, I was half kidding about me crossing the two... I would rather make Really awesome Leos and really awesome Fat tails... I must say that I am at the very least, really really really curious though... LOL:main_laugh:

 

[Brewster320]

Think about it... they are not even the same specie. The come from completely different continents and hemispheres. Just because they look similar does not mean that they are genetically compatible.

Just look at the wall (ball python X woma python) they are from completely different areas and aren't even in the same genus. Infact they aren't nearly as closey related to each other as AFTs and Leos are. For example ball pythons (Python regius) like other pythons in its genus have heat pits with which they can actually see in heat, the woma (Aspidites ramsayi) on ther other hand lacks the familiar looking heat sensing pits that most python have this makes their heads look more like a colubrid (corn snakes, king snakes, ect..) than a python. Yet how they produce offspring. If Leos and AFTs can't produce offspring then there has to be someting in snake genetics that allows them to hybridnize with species so vastly different.

Infact they don't even look similar!
Ball Python

Woma Python

And their hybrid offspring the wall.