Live under your means!!!

[Cheaton]

Just a quick rant. I'm getting more and more disturbed by the number of people I see in pet related forums who talk about how their pets break them. Or they have no money to buy this for their pet, or take them to the vet.

Here's alittle advice folks... if you're living paycheck to paycheck, day to day, or week to week you should NOT have a pet. If you don't have emergency money in the bank you should NOT have a pet. If you're paying the minimum on your credit cards every month and they're close to maxed out you should NOT have a pet.

Learn to take care of yourself before you make an innocent animal suffer from your fiscal stupidity. My wife and I make around $50k total and live in the DC area (incredibly expensive place to live) have a dog and a leo and still manage to save around $1,000 a month. It is possible to not make alot of money and still save even if you live in a high rent area. Of course bad things happen, people lose jobs etc. etc. But if you take advantage in the good times and save your money instead of blowing it on frivilous things the bad times can be ALOT easier. It just takes alittle effort and restraint.

 

[lil_katiedan]

Good advice. I'm sure alot of us agree and understand where you're coming from.

 

[LadyGecko]

I think that you are coming across a bit harshly here

Although I don't read all that many posts as the ones that you have described-maybe I don't frequent the same forums that you do except for this one

I DO read many posts about people that have spent hundreds of dollars at a vet and I don't hear them complaining about it-only that their gecko (or whatever pet) is doing much better and how happy that they are
I think that you are doing a lot of generalizing here

Yes-I do read the posts here and there-mostly from kids whose parents won't let them take their lizard to the vet because THEIR PARENTS don't think that it is worth spending the money on it and I really feel for those kids

If we are going to generalize-perhaps those people should not have had kids if they could not take care of the needs of a small pet for them?

I grew up without pets-for whatever reason my parents were not big animal people and I always felt that there was a big something missing in my life as a child

As someone that lives from week to week and has 3 elderly dogs all on medication I really resent someone telling me that I have no business keeping pets

There are plenty of people with lots of money that think of their pets as "throw-aways" and abandon them or give them away when they tire of them

Money is not the ONLY criteria for being a responsible pet owner
Love and the willingness to make things happen -even when you can't afford it carries a lot more weight to me than someone with a big bank account

My animals needs are all met and emergencies are dealt with as they occur and with 3 elderly dogs there have been thousands of dollars spent at the vets

I have also spent my fair share at the vets on my cats and I don't even add up what my total animal food bill is per week

And just what do I get in return for this beside an empty wallet?????

Joy-Smiles and Laughter and a general uplifting of my spirits every time that I am interacting with or just watching any of my animals

My animals are my life and I would rather spend my time with any day them than most people that I come across and if I am monetarily poorer for keeping them-I am much richer in spirit for it

As for spending money on frivolous things-How can you be the judge what is frivolous from one person to the next?

I am really happy for you that you have a nice income and money in the bank but believe me-there might be a time NO Matter how much that you scrimp and save that you could be completely financially wiped out
It doesn't take more than a few bad things to happen in a row in todays economy for that to happen

Does that mean that you should never keep a pet or for that matter-why even think of ever having children?

I do not want to see any animals suffer including human beings but there sure is plenty of that going on in the world

I think that for the most part-people love their animals and consider them family members that deserve as much care as they do and that it is rather unfair to just lump people together as you have done

Sandy

 

[Sandra]

Money is not the only criteria for being a responsible pet owner. Unfortunately, it is necessary to have at least that much to mantain a pet.

Sandy, I don't think Cheaton meant that people with poor income can't have pets and rich people are automatically good pet owners. I least I didn't see it that way.

People who complain about having to take their pets to the vet, or that the complements they have to buy are too expensive... They more likely have enough money to pay for it, but think it's not worth it to spend it on their pets when they could spend it on something else. And then, they complain about their pets being too expensive to mantain. I've seen several people like this, althought maybe not as many as Cheaton states.

I just don't see the "I haven't enough money" excuse valid in most cases. In the cases you said (a kid whose parents won't let him, or a person that finds himself broke overnight) I guess is understandable. Still, the kid should make sure that his parents are willing to pay the animal's expenses, and an adult person who is really broke, so much that can't even pay a vet visit, should give or sell the animal away.

I don't think Cheaton's post goes against people that aren't specially wealthy, but care about their animals and pay their expenses without whining about it. I'm never too broke to pay a vet visit, even if that means I have to be on cheap food for a while or not going out on the weekend. It's just a matter of preferences.

 

[Cheaton]

I totally agree. Just because you don't make alot of money doesn't mean you shouldn't have a pet. But... if your pets are causing you financial hardships then it seems to me that it makes sense to give up one or two. I understand pets become a part of our families. But really, how much sense does it make to put your own health and financial health in jeopardy for the sake of having a pet. I understand pets bring you joy, mine do too, but joy doesn't pay the rent. Also, what is frivilous for me IS also frivilous for you. If it's not housing, food, or neccesary clothing, or work expenses it's frivilous. Things which you don't need is the very definition of frivilous.

I can't begin to tell you how much happier I am as a person since I learned what the difference between need and want is. Living paycheck to paycheck is stressful, probably one of the most stressful things I've experienced. I was that way for most of my adult life to this point. When I quit looking to the material things I wanted for happiness and satisfaction I realized there's so much more to life. Pets being one of them. I can actually afford to have one now. Kids, Pets, and what we spend our money on are all choices we make. They don't just happen by chance. If you have pets and you learn to do without certain other "pleasures" (i.e. going to the movies, eating out, junk food, etc.) you may find, as I did, you and your pet can live a much more secure and satisfying existence. Also, the afore mentioned things become much more of a treat when you only do them now and then.

Finally, just to be perfectly clear on my viewpoint. Pets are not for the "rich". Pets are for those who can reasonably and feesably care for an animal. Part of this is fiscal responsibility and making sure you can provide for that animal, just like if you had a kid. I believe in saving money. I believe that spending every dime you get and living paycheck to paycheck is preventable and wholly avoidable for almost anyone. The exceptions being the truely poor and perhaps students. Kids are a choice, pets are a choice, things we buy that aren't neccesary are a choice. Am I perfect? hardly. Do I still spend money on things I shouldn't? Of course. But, I do at such a low frequency level it really doesn't effect my bottom line. What you do with your money is your business. But, if you're spending to the point that you suffer because of it then you should probably change something in your life. If that's the amount of pets that you have, or having pets altogether than so be it. The satisfaction and confidence of knowing you can have what you need when you need it far outweighs the satisfaction of having a pet. It does for me anyway. Afterall, pets are frivilous. I love mine to death, but I could live without them if I had to. Emotional pain goes away, financial pain stays until you correct it. I never realized the pressure I was constantly under until I got out from under it. Financial hardship is overwhelming.

I don't have a nice income. Our income is pathetically low for the area in which we live (and we're out of here as soon as my wife finishes her degree). I understand bad things can happen and wipe someone out. But you know what, alot of times when that does happen those people were living right on the edge of their means. Also, I would not even consider having a pet or a child if I wasn't 100% sure I was financially able to care for them. To do so is irresponsible in my book. I'm not willing to put my own satisfaction and pleasure over the needs of my family and myself.

 

[T&KBrouse]

I've been sitting here, rereading this thread for a while now, trying to formulate a response that would contribute a positive note to this issue without sounding inflamatory. I'm not very articulate, so I hope what I have to say doesn't come out wrong.
Sandy, thank you for your response. It was very well said.
I would never, ever put any of my animal's lives in jeapardy. And just as if my human children needed medical attention, I would make sure my reptiles got the same care. There was a time in our lives that we could not get vet care and we had almost no money to live on. I stopped taking my MS medication because I couldn't afford the meds and food for the animals. I thank God every day that now things are better and we are back where I have a good job and we have a wonderful vet close by that if we are tight on money one week, he'll take payments or let us catch up the next time.
I have seen those people that get a $17 leo from PetCo and just don't care if it dies. They'll just get another one. After all, "Its just a lizard." That is outrageous to me. These little creatures never had a say in how they would spend their lives and they are on this earth for such a short time. Just like our human children, if we have them, its our obligation and responsibility to make sure they are treated right.
Some of the best, most loving reptile owners I know are living from paycheck to paycheck. Their finances are doing fine and so are their animals.
My biggest issue is with these people that get these animals on a whim. They have no idea what to do and don't even try.

I'm pretty sure I'm paying for our vet's new BMW, but I'm not sweating the cost. I can, however, dance and hoot and holler when a medication works, when babies are born healthy or a rescue miraculously pulls through a bout of pnuemonia. When the need arises, the money will always be there. It always has.

And I have rambled on way too long now. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Cheaton]

Ok, I won't say anymore on this subject after this. Obviously, as I expected, some folks are missing the point. Point is, if you're living paycheck to paycheck your finances are not "fine". You're on the razors edge. One bad thing and it's goodbye house, car, pets, everything. I don't believe pets are "throw aways". I think they deserve the utmost respect and care. But to stop taking a medication for a serious chronic disease like MS to take care of your pets? That's alittle silly to me. SOrry if that seams harsh, but that's just how i see it. There are people who can take those pets off of your hands and take fine care of them. You may call it sacrifice, I call it over the top. I agree with you about impulse buying. It's ridiculous. But I have to reiderate, living paycheck to paycheck and having to give up medication for pets is not having "fine" finances. If you ask me it's very poor managment of finances and a lack of understanding of what the difference between needs and wants are. Pets are not something you need, they're somethign you want. They don't need YOU in particular to care for them. THere are others who can afford to and do a fine job at it.

Saving money is something noone is taught to do anymore. People think that they get a raise they can buy more stuff, another raise, buy more stuff. That's why when companies go out of business and these executives lose their jobs they go off the deep end. Living right on the edge of their means. You don't have to do this! Why do you want to do this? Life is not about having everything you want it's about having everything you need.

Please don't be too offended by my statements, I understand this is mostly just my opinion. But this is a subject i'm very passionate about. I truely believe most people can be much more happy in their lives if they learn how to save money.

 

[BettaDragon]

I don't want to be too blunt but I want to make this short and sweet.

Cheaton, you relate having pets to having kids. Would you give away your kids as you suggest people should give away their reptiles once things get rough? I don't know about you but if I had MS and kids, if things got rough, I would go off the meds to provide for the kids. Personally, I treat my pets like children as I think animals are better than people. If an animal is sick, not many people will take it in the care for it and pay for it's meds. At least not many people I know. Sometimes, some sacrifices just need to be made because you know other people won't help. Just my opinion on the matter.

 

[T&KBrouse]

I understand where you are coming from. So no offense taken. My downfall was I let someone else take the wheel and I payed dearly for it. When I made the decision to take my life back and take charge of my finances, I made a few enemies, but all in all, it was the best decision I could have made for both my health and my animals' well being. I'll own that mistake and have taken steps to rectify the problem.
I guess the point I was trying to make is that you can never be 100% ready for, well, anything. I'd love to be able to make a solid 5 year plan, but life is very fluid. You just never know whats going to happen. All you can do is try and prepare for the worst case scenario. Loss of jobs, unexpected pregnancies, deaths, divorce, etc. are all those little obstacles that can be very life changing. I can have an idea where I want to be, but I know I need to make consetions to CMA when something happens.
I agree that savings is neccessary. I watched my parent and grandparents that never saved a dime, suffer terribly in their golden years and have to depend on their children to merely survive. I don't want that. But then theres my husband's family that believe unless you have 6 digits in the bank, you aren't truly happy. I don't think this is healthy either. His family has missed out on grandkids and now great-grandkids because of their views on money and they are completely miserable people. I guess extreme in any circumstance is never good.

I work in the death industry, so I totally know where you are coming from when you stress financial responsibility (I had to pay for my dad's cremation). On the other side of the coin, though, I know how easily life can be taken away and I don't want to be a mere credit score when its all said and done.

My goal is to maintain 3 months worth of living expenses in the bank at all times, just in case. I'm almost there. My next goal is 6 months.

Thank you for bringing up this topic. It has been very interesting. I hope I haven't sounded like I'm missing the point.

Liz- Wow! Well said! Thank you!

 

[Cheaton]

If I had to go off of important medications for a serious condition I would not do so for the sake of my pets. I would work dilligantly to find them a new home understanding I'm not in a position to care for them and myself. Kids are a different story AFTER the fact, but not before the fact. Pregnancy is as preventable as buying a dog. I'm sorry, but while I realize that animals are important, and I greatly respect and value them, I do not put them ahead of my own welfare or the welfare of my family. I would, however, do everything in my power to save my dog or my leo even if it harmed me. But if I could save myself and my pet that is the option I would choose, even if it wasn't the most noble option (like giving them up to make sure BOTH of us were ok). But, this is just me.

TK, thanks for understanding. We all have opinions and well.. you know the rest. I don't for a second think that having or making alot of money is important. But what is important is maintaining enough to get through the rough times and emergencies. To have enough to buy another car (notice i didn't say a new car) should the current one die. To be able to buy a new wardrobe should your house or apartment burn and your insurance won't cover the losses of your clothes. To have the ability to schdule and budget your life to the point that scheduling and budgeting isn't always the first thing on your mind (i know that's a bit of a confusing concept, but I basically mean having things plannedo ut to the point you don't have to worry about them constantly like you do paycheck to paycheck). Unfortunately these concepts aren't covered in schools like they should be. Modern parents dont do these thigns themselves so don't begin to impart this on to their children. It's a spend spend spend world and people who save are considered "cheap". Let me tell ya, being cheap is the best feeling I've ever had. More satisfying than any drug, any food, any movie, tv show, or video game, or pet i've had. It's an awesome feeling of freedom to have money in the bank.

 

[LadyGecko]

I guess that we are all different views on this subject and I respect whatever each individual does as long as they do not extend their rules to include the rest of the world

What works for you may not in reality work for for me purely due to circumstances

Lets hope that everyone can have as happy and as pleasant of a life possible with or without pets or children

Sandy

 

[T&KBrouse]

You're right. It is a difference of opinions and lifestyles. I'm very fortunate to be able to afford to save a bit without compromising quality of life. I think that was one of my biggest goals.

It has been interesting to see where other's "line in the sand" has been concerning an issue like this. Thank you to everyone for sharing your views.

 

[MSMD]

I guess it boils down as a personal decision. I am strongly opposed to the idea of 'throw away' pets. I do believe that the desicion to get a new pet should be researched and informed. Those are all good points.

In my situation, we have had some hard times financially since I was injured at work. We were very financially comfortable, just built a new house, 2 vehicle payments, etc, etc...... Then I was injured almost 2 years ago. Things can change in the blink of an eye.

We are now in a very different situation. However, when vet bills arise, they are tended to. We find a way. Our pets do not go without. They have no idea things have changed financially for us. I, personally, am not making the decision to rehome any of them. A large part of the reason is the fact that these guys are my therapy. Whether it's the geckos, dogs, cats, fish...... I have chronic pain and am miserable. These guys are always here for me. And on the days that I don't even want to get out of bed, they give me purpose. I have people that love and care about me in my life, but somehow the bonds with my pets is different. We have a quiet understanding that goes without speaking. To me, that is priceless.

Just my $.02. I'm not saying that the original poster had any ill intent or did not have any type of vaild point. Just stating my humble opinion.

 

[ALGeckos]

I'm replying because I'm one of those people with a financial problem. I was supposed to buy a couple of cresteds from The Gecko Hut, but then I hit my financial hardship.


When I first started owning my geckos, I was financially OK. I just graduated, I got a stable job, my fiance and I moved in together, and we were doing well. Our animals got everything they needed. I don't blame them for my current financial hardship and I definitely still take care of them even though I am struggling financially.

It's not that I can't save, because I did have sufficient savings at the time. My grandfather fell ill in December 07, then he slipped and broke his hip. While he was in the hospital, he suffered a heart attack and went into the ICU. So my money and my relatives money went to: renovating the 2nd floor of my uncle's house to make it easier for my grandfather to do anything. We bought a hospital bed, mobility supplies (wheelchair, walker, etc.), a new mounted TV, the meds that aren't fully covered by his health insurance, bars for the bathrooms and specific areas of his room, hired a private home care nurse who we paid out-of-pocket, and many other things to make sure he would be comfortable and stay comfortable. This same grandfather had a younger brother, my youngest grandfather who always made me smile, passed away immediately after this whole ordeal. So this is where my money went.

So just because I don't have money now, doesn't mean I shouldn't own any pets. They still have everything they need and I still care for them the same way I always have. I don't plan on getting rid of them and I'm doing what I can to save what money I have left.

Sorry if it seems as if I'm being defensive as if you were targeting me. LOL!!! I think the only person from this forum that knew about this was Daniel, the owner of The Gecko Hut, because I still want to buy cresteds in the near future. I just think that if someone has something deeply personal that they don't want to share, they shouldn't be judged if they needed to sell their pets to survive in this suffering economy. I wasn't planning on sharing ANY of that with anyone else here, but I just wanted to stress that there are some things in life we can't avoid and people shouldn't be looked down on because they have other personal issues going on. It's a different story if they're just neglecting their pets because they got "tired" of owning them, but for those who are going through other issues in life shouldn't be judged in the same manner.

But OK. Smiles. :main_yes:

 

[LadyGecko]

Cheaton-

You have stated that the best recourse for many people that are going through financial hardships or that do not have a sizable amount of savings in the bank would be to give their pets away to people that are in a better position to care for them

With animal shelters filled to the brim with "unwanted/throw away" animals and classifieds full of animals for adoption-just where are these numerous parties that are in a financially sound position to be able to care for these "monetarily taxing animals"?

Also-what guarantee does anyone have that their beloved pet will be cared for in the same loving and caring manner as the people that are giving them up have done and have any better care than with their original family/owners?

Your "life goals" are very intelligent-planning for the future is always a good thing-but I there are more people than not in this country that live from paycheck to paycheck-that work much more than 40 hour weeks at a minimum wage job or work two or more jobs just to make ends meet

Many of these people do live within their means-many have no credit cards-spend cash on any "luxuries-luxury being a very subjective term" and still do not have an extra penny to put aside for a 'rainy day"

Example-our town was flooded this past year and many people were completely wiped out financially and lost their homes and everything in them

Those that were totally not wiped out financially are extremely deep in debt from trying to either rebuild or relocate
Some of these people are the ones that most did have savings in the bank that were depleted from the consequences of the flooding

The insurance companies pulled a real dirty trick on the flood victims here-they declared that the "flood" was not indeed a flood but a "backwash" or some other ridiculous terminology to ensure that they did not have to pay out claim money to the people that were able to afford flood insurance and had been paying the premiums on those policies for many years

What else could they have possibly done other than to not buy a home where they did to ensure that they would not be affected by a "natural disaster"
BTW-this was a "freak flood" and many people were flooded out that were not officially listed as living in a flood plain

People here with money in the bank and that also carried flood insurance unfortunately found that it did not make one bit of difference in the end result of ending up broke and in debt

This is reality that can and does happen all over the country to many people


The government here has been ridiculous in their offerings of assistance to these people when compared to the vulgar amount of money that we have poured into other countries all over the world to in aid to them or to rebuild them

It still seems to me that you are saying that people have no right to have a child or keep a pet unless they are 100% assured that they are never going to be in a hardship position?
I respectively say that is an extremely unrealistic attitude to have

Please correct me if I am wrong in interpreting what you have been saying here

I do admire you in your determination to ensure that you are never in a situation that will leave you without a penny-but with the state of the economy today-do you honestly believe that is possible-to say that you will be prepared and be able to financially rebound from every set-back that might occur in your lifetime?

"Stuff "happens to people with millions in the bank and they are financially wiped out

Life just has too many intangibles to be able to say that you will never be in a position as many of us are or have been

I wish you the best of luck with your life goals and hope that you never are in a position of financial hardship

just my 2 cents

Sandy

 

[Mel&Keith]

I think that "stuff" does happen, you have the personal right to decide how you deal with it.

But having had drug addicted neighbors who had tons of tons of children all born into welfare and pets that they could not afford to feed I would get irritated When I would find out that that the mom was pregnant again or that they got another cat. When you know that you will not have the means to care for a pet (or a child for that matter) then I don't think you should get it (or have one). The city came and took their dog away several times for roaming the neighborhood and not having current shots. He finally bit a child and the city took him away for the last time and put him to sleep.

Who paid for the gas in the Animal Control truck and the euthanasia? Who paid for all of their children's food? My tax dollars.

I think there's a huge difference between knowingly putting yourself in a financial bind and having a tragedy or sudden change of circumstance happen in your life.

 

[GeckoBoy]

Money is no object for the safety of my pets

 

[fallen_angel]

My animals are my life and I would rather spend my time with any day them than most people that I come across and if I am monetarily poorer for keeping them-I am much richer in spirit for it

Couldn't have said it any better, we agree completely.

 

[T&KBrouse]

You're right, Jess. That is it, perfectly.:main_yes:

 

[MSMD]

:main_yes: