Lots of questions...Help appreciated :)

[KMAVII]

Hello, I've been lurking these forums for quite some time, usually while logged out.

I've read almost all the stickies and suggested reading and many care-guides etc. One in particular I've recently re-read has been this one.

A bit of background for my questions. I currently have one leo, a super snow female I purchased from geckos etc. She's been housed in a 10 gallon tank the entire time I've had her and with the most basic setup. I've been hankering to get her a larger tank, as well as a companion or two for the same tank this breeding season(hopefully) now that I can flesh out her settings better and have begun a worm colony here at home. The tank in question is a 40 gal(I know that's a bit large for 1 leo, but I will be getting more and this one was a great deal from a friend).

One of my major questions is regarding heating lights/lamps. I know that leos don't "need" them and that they much prefer belly heat; also that bright or yellow light will hurt their eyes. So I would use a red night light instead. My room only has one air vent, and it's a very large room, and it gets rather cold at night. An UTH I feel would not suffice in a larger tank to keep the temperatures appropriate and steady both on the bottom of the tank and in the air. My question is - which lamp is best for this limited night time use? Ceramic or porcelain only, I know, but I am having trouble figuring out what size or brand would best fit my needs for these purposes. Any pointers or opinions on that matter would be a GREAT help.

The second is substrate. I'm pretty much sold on using ceramic or slate tiles instead of sand/paper towels/bark/loose substrate. My question is, which of the two is better at warming up, and keeping heat? Or are they both the same? Should the tile be placed directly on the glass or should I put a thin layer of substrate(sand, paper towels? something else?) under it? Should the tiles fit /exactly/, or should they be just slightly smaller than the inside of the tank for under-substrate padding and ease of removal/cleaning? And will the color of the tile effect the leos at all? I have seen some very brightly colored tiles, and I'm not sure if the brighter colors would reflect too much natural sunlight/light from my ceiling fan into their sensitive eyes. Would a darker color like greys, blacks, reds or dark greens/blues be best?

I have also read up on thermometers and temperature controls. I've been using a temperature gauge my dad has for car engines/metal work that is very precise and accurate, but it is a touch-surface only meter where I touch the tip of the probe to the substrate. It is a metal rod - it cannot be bent, taped, etc to the tank in any manner (it is also my dads ). I've heard several particular thermostats/thermometers and temperature regulators being used, but which is able to handle 2 UTH pads at once? And one for controlling/monitoring the night lamp for when it gets cold at night, to keep it from overheating the tank by accident when it's on? And I'm still uncertain what kind of thermometer needs to be placed at the cool side of the tank, since the heat pads and lamp I would like a temperature control to keep their temps steady/stable at all times. Also getting these things without breaking the bank is fairly important, but of course I don't want something cheap or something that can't handle the wattage of the lamp and UTHs' constantly...

Really do appreciate any help or opinions on these matters, because even though I've done reading and looking around, I'm still unsure and haven't anybody to speak with or ask opinions of directly. She will continue living in her 10 gallon tank until the larger one is fully outfitted and I have a companion or two for her to share it with. But the sooner outfitted the better!

 

[katie_]

In regards to "companions", leos don't really appreciate company. They will tolerate each other, but in no way does she need a companion. That being said, if you'd like to house two females together, you can try it. You'll want to quarantine any new gecko in its own seperate tank for at least 90 days. This ensures that any disease or parasite problem does not affect your other geckos (its a very important that you do not get antsy and skip this period).
You'll also want a seperate tank and supplies on hand incase they dont get along. Even females can bully and fight each other. You'll want them both to be the same size, and you'll want a good scale to monitor weights as if will be hard to know whos eating what and pooping how often.

I wouldnt house a male with my females as this can stress them out from over breeding. I would house a male alone and introduce him to the female during ovulation.

I had a leo in a 40 gallon with an appropriate sized UTH and no additional heat was needed. If you are going to need more heat, use a ceramic heat emitter instead of a bulb. They last longer and reptiles have still been known to be stressed out by red lights.

I would go with slate tile, as its rougher and easier for them to walk on.

Zoomed sells a pretty inexpensive temp gun. Check your local petstores or you can probably order one online.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

I think Katie covered pretty much everything. Just two notes:

If you do decide to house two together (which I wouldn't really recommend, since it's totally unnecessary and only poses risks without any actual benefits, given that leos are solitary creatures), make sure you know the signs of bullying/dominance - following, tail nipping, laying on top of each other, etc. Also make sure you have separate food/water dishes for each and PLENTY of hides.

As far as thermometers/thermostats, here's a good thermostat: Amazon.com: Hydrofarm MTPRTC Digital Thermostat For Heat Mats: Patio, Lawn & Garden Then you can use a digital thermometer on the cool side (the thermostat is basically a digital thermometer, just also adjusts the heat mat). Temp guns are good for reading surface temperatures as well (digital thermometers measure air temps).

~Maggot

 

[KMAVII]

In regards to "companions", leos don't really appreciate company. They will tolerate each other, but in no way does she need a companion. That being said, if you'd like to house two females together, you can try it. You'll want to quarantine any new gecko in its own seperate tank for at least 90 days. This ensures that any disease or parasite problem does not affect your other geckos (its a very important that you do not get antsy and skip this period).
You'll also want a seperate tank and supplies on hand incase they dont get along. Even females can bully and fight each other. You'll want them both to be the same size, and you'll want a good scale to monitor weights as if will be hard to know whos eating what and pooping how often.

I wouldnt house a male with my females as this can stress them out from over breeding. I would house a male alone and introduce him to the female during ovulation.

I had a leo in a 40 gallon with an appropriate sized UTH and no additional heat was needed. If you are going to need more heat, use a ceramic heat emitter instead of a bulb. They last longer and reptiles have still been known to be stressed out by red lights.

I would go with slate tile, as its rougher and easier for them to walk on.

Zoomed sells a pretty inexpensive temp gun. Check your local petstores or you can probably order one online.

Yes, thank you, I know all those basics about leopard geckos. I would not even ever consider buying a male (even if I house all my leos separately regardless of gender) unless I decided to breed. I would also never, ever, buy a reptile of any kind and immediately put it into a tank with an already established animal. I monitor weight and feeding of my current gecko very actively(weighed every other day, fed regularly on variety of properly gutloaded worms/crickets with the occasional waxworm/butterworm treat). She will not eat unless fed by tong, as it is. I would prefer any others I get be the same or trained the same, so I can accurately make sure they all are eating regularly.

As I stated - my room gets very cold. Even I have a difficult time sleeping sometimes because of the lack of heat. There is no 'return air' vent in my bedroom, so the air from the heater(when it does come on) does not flow across the room. This is something that will be taken care of eventually when the homeowners have a chance to do so; in the meantime because it gets so cold I would very much prefer to have a night lamp to keep them from freezing. As it is she's still slightly under the recommended heat in a 10 gal.

And for all my reading, I've never heard of leopard geckos in particular being stressed by red night lamps. Everything I've come across that said if you MUST have an overhead lamp, use red because they cannot see it and it wont agitate their eyes or cause them stress. Unless this is wrong? If somebody could point me to a factual study about that if possible it would be great, last thing I want is to be confused about what night heating I should use!


Unfortunately a "temp gun" doesn't solve my problem/desire with keeping the UTHs and lamp at a steady consistent temperature. It'll tell me what the temperature is, but that doesn't give me a means to have it auto shut off if it gets too hot, or to turn the temperature down to prevent getting too hot in the event I am not home or the temperature outside/in the room suddenly spikes(summer time). More opinions or help on that would be lovely. :] In particular I'd like something that can handle more than one heatpad at a time. I wont be getting rid of the 10 gallon tank I currently have for obvious quarantine purposes and/or in the event somebody gets sick or a friend asks me to babysit for them over a long period etc.

Thanks for the replies, very much leaning towards slate tiles!

 

[Embrace Calamity]

And for all my reading, I've never heard of leopard geckos in particular being stressed by red night lamps. Everything I've come across that said if you MUST have an overhead lamp, use red because they cannot see it and it wont agitate their eyes or cause them stress. Unless this is wrong? If somebody could point me to a factual study about that if possible it would be great, last thing I want is to be confused about what night heating I should use!

Very wrong.
"Some nocturnal geckos lack the red-sensitive cone, but their green-sensitive cone also responds to red light; they can certainly see it. Studies have even shown that some use their cone types for color vision in light similar to dim moonlight. Thus it is possible that “moonlight blue” or “red night light” lamps, which usually are much brighter than moonlight, alter these animals’ view of the twilight world."
Reptile Lighting Information

Colored Lights & Reptiles: Myths the pet store told me - Reptile Apartment
"This multifocal optical system is comprised of large cones, which the researchers calculated to be more than 350 times more sensitive than human cone vision at the human color vision threshold."
'Gecko Vision': Key To Future Multifocal Contact Lens?

If you want further evidence, you can look through previous posts on the topic. Many people have switched to CHEs from red lights and noticed a huge difference in nighttime activity. When I got my leo, I used a red light, but after switching to a CHE, I saw how really active they are at night.

Unfortunately a "temp gun" doesn't solve my problem/desire with keeping the UTHs and lamp at a steady consistent temperature. It'll tell me what the temperature is, but that doesn't give me a means to have it auto shut off if it gets too hot, or to turn the temperature down to prevent getting too hot in the event I am not home or the temperature outside/in the room suddenly spikes(summer time). More opinions or help on that would be lovely. :]

If you read my post, I linked you to a thermostat that will do exactly that.

~Maggot

 

[KMAVII]

Very wrong.
"Some nocturnal geckos lack the red-sensitive cone, but their green-sensitive cone also responds to red light; they can certainly see it. Studies have even shown that some use their cone types for color vision in light similar to dim moonlight. Thus it is possible that “moonlight blue” or “red night light” lamps, which usually are much brighter than moonlight, alter these animals’ view of the twilight world."
Reptile Lighting Information

Colored Lights & Reptiles: Myths the pet store told me - Reptile Apartment
"This multifocal optical system is comprised of large cones, which the researchers calculated to be more than 350 times more sensitive than human cone vision at the human color vision threshold."
'Gecko Vision': Key To Future Multifocal Contact Lens?

If you want further evidence, you can look through previous posts on the topic. Many people have switched to CHEs from red lights and noticed a huge difference in nighttime activity. When I got my leo, I used a red light, but after switching to a CHE, I saw how really active they are at night.
If you read my post, I linked you to a thermostat that will do exactly that.

~Maggot

Ah I see. I had read the reptile lighting before but that was several years ago. I presume CHE stands for ceramic heat emitter? I've seen a few I think, any particular one to look at?


And sorry, I did see your post, I forgot to reply to it directly. I only see one outlet on that. Can it handle 2 UTHs at once?

 

[acpart]

I use thermostats made by Alife, ESU, Zilla (they all look the same to me except for the brand name) that can handle 3 UTH's at once.

Aliza

 

[Embrace Calamity]

I believe it can handle more than one at a time. That's the brand I see most often recommended (I've heard less than stellar things about the Zilla ones malfunctioning, but I dunno about the other brands AC listed).

~Maggot

 

[Ozy]

The HydroFarms thermostat can only monitor 1 UTH