Meaning of F1

[gothra]

I thought F1 meant the first generation of a new morph, am I mistaken?

I visited another forum, someone posted a picture of a young RAPTOR he hatched in June this year, and he calls it F1 Raptor. I pointed out to him that the "F1" meant the very first generation of RAPTOR, therefore the bunch of RAPTORs Ron Tremper debuted a few years ago were F1 RAPTORs, and so his young gecko shouldn't be called F1.

And then, there is a snake person come and says I'm irresponsible in giving out wrong information (yes, in a rude manner), and wants me to give proof to what I said!! How do you give proof to such things?? Besides, what I wrote is what I believe is correct, I'm not 100% sure though, I could be mistaken.

Can someone please tell me what exactly F1 means (so I can feel more confident)?

 

[Gregg M]

Actually F1 is usually reserved for hybrid breeding and not really used when refering to morphs technically speaking.

Lets say you bred a leo to an AFT and the eggs hatched... The resulting offspring would be called F1s. Offspring from those offspring would be called F2s and so on...

 

[gothra]

Thanks Gregg. Then the term "F1" shouldn't be attached to leopard geckos morphs... I remember seeing posts where people talk about F1 enigmas, F1 Mack snows...etc. therefore I had the idea that first generation of something never seen before can be referred to as "F1"; guess I'm mistaken.

 

[godzillizard]

The "F" stands for filial, which means: "having or assuming the relationship of child or offspring to parent." Alot of people use it in reference to certain types of crosses, not just inter-species hybrids. In the leachie world, it's used in reference to wild caught parentage--meaning, an F1 would be the offspring of 2 wild caught parents. An F2 would be the offspring from a pair that was offspring from wild caught parents. Don't quote me on that though, I'm not a 'licensed' geneticist

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

When we see the terms "F1" or "F2" in leopard geckos, it means that F1= first generation from wild-caught parents, F2= second generation from wild-caught parents, etc.

 

[bohannbj]

In the strictest sense, it goes P1, F1, F2 ... It's latin for patrii and filial I believe, which is basically parents and children. It is basically set on what you call your P1 generation. In all fairness, RAPTORS could be called the F24 generation for RT, but could be your P1. Basically genetics are easy going, until you try to make money off them.
Brent

 

[Sammag]

I think unless the gecko is a new strain of morph or wild, F1 and F2 should not really be used.

Since It refers to a first generation of a new morph or wild caught animal Very few geckos are really F1 or F2.

I know that in the fish hobby many fish are F1 and are prized for there behaviour being closest to their wild counterparts but lacking the potentially deadly bacteria and feeding issues. This is because it is not uncommon for wild imports to come in and be bred by avid hobbyists such as myself.

So in my opinion F1 or F2 should TRULY be reserved for wild caught leos. Or a brand spankin new leo morph.

With that said since almost all geckos of a certain morph originate from 1 or a several original colonies you could have F50000 walkin around in your cage right now lol. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I see your points. But, when we are speaking of leopard gecko localities or sub-species, (E. afghanicus, E. fasciolatus, E. montanus, etc.) it is beneficial to know how many generations from wild-caught parents we are looking at.

Since any 'F-zero' leopard geckos are illegal to have here in the USA, the closer to 'wild-caught' we can get can give us some guarantee of their pure, untainted genetics.

 

[Gregg M]

I would still not use F in relation to leopard geckos or any other animal unless it was a cross. I feel if it is used any other way the term is just being adopted and not used properly... Think about it, if it is a wild caught leo it is certainly not the first generation and it is clearly not the start of anything new. Any new hatchling of an established morph could not be an F1. Besides that, I have never seen a new morph using the term F1 in any species.

Since any 'F-zero' leopard geckos are illegal to have here in the USA, the closer to 'wild-caught' we can get can give us some guarantee of their pure, untainted genetics.

Well actually, they are not illegal to have in the Country. They are only illegal to import into this Country from their NATIVE Country. It would be perfectly legal to import wildcaught individuals from a Country where they can legally import them and where we can legally import from...

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Yep F1 stands for first filial generation, and when it is used to describe LG morphs, it would mean that it is the first cross between that morph, line, or subspecies, to and an unrelated line.

P1 X P1(1st parental generation) = F1 cross

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Well, it looks like we are once again using the incorrect term for wild caughts.

they are not illegal to have in the Country. They are only illegal to import into this Country from their NATIVE Country. It would be perfectly legal to import wildcaught individuals from a Country where they can legally import them and where we can legally import from...

If the wild caught geckos were purchased in Pakistan (or any other country that the USA has sanctions against), and then imported through another country where it is legal to do business with US sanctioned countries, then is could be compared to smuggling.

 

[paulh]

Originally, F1 and F2 applied to generations in a genetics project such as a morph X normal or morph X morph. The terms have been more or less misused for other purposes, such as number of generations out of the wild. Put it down to wanting to sound scientific.

I prefer to use WC for wild caught and CB_ for captive bred _th generation.

 

[gothra]

Thanks for all the input! Just want to let you know that my problem is solved . Turns out that many people here in my country believe the first generation of babies produced by a pair of first time breeder is F1, just like how F1, F2 is counted in terms of tropical fish; I also misunderstood it the whole time!

 

[Gregg M]

If the wild caught geckos were purchased in Pakistan (or any other country that the USA has sanctions against), and then imported through another country where it is legal to do business with US sanctioned countries, then is could be compared to smuggling.

smug·gle (smgl)
v. smug·gled, smug·gling, smug·gles
v.tr.
1. To import or export without paying lawful customs charges or duties.
2. To bring in or take out illicitly or by stealth.

If that were the case it would be illegal to import any leos from European countries. Just because a leo was wild caught, it would not make it any less legal than a captive born.
Again, leopard geckos are not illegal to have in this Country wild caught or otherwise. It is only illegal for the US to import them directly from their County of origin.
If purchase from a Country where the leos were imported legally and they were then exported to the US legally, all transactions and the animals are in fact legal. Not even remotely close to being smuggled...

Basically fauna that is smuggled, for the most part, are protected species or species that are not legally EXPORTED from their Country of origin or imported illegaly..

 

[paulnj]

My question is when did these subspecies become illegal to import from the country of origin?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

The USA has sanctions against the importation of reptiles (and lots of other things) from countries sucjh as Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. since the first gulf war.

 

[paulnj]

Thanks.

Does that mean anyone with a "subspecies" is supporting illegal importation of animals unknowingly, or is it possible to get a subspecies legally?

 

[bohannbj]

Marcia is right. I don't think its the importation that makes it illegal, its that we have trade sanctions from pretty much all the countries that they come from. Pakistan might be an option, I'm just not sure why anyone besides a major facility would want wc reptiles. That's an awfully big risk with parasites, for a miniscule chance at a mutation.

 

[Gregg M]

Thanks.

Does that mean anyone with a "subspecies" is supporting illegal importation of animals unknowingly, or is it possible to get a subspecies legally?

No because the WC subspecies were not imported directly from the Country we have "sanctions" against...

 

[paulnj]

Gotcha brotha.