mini geckos

[hondawingsfly]

has anyone ever found a small gene in geckos and bred small geckos? i have seen dwarf geckos but those dont look right or like they would even be able to be bred but just a gene for small just like theres genes for giant

 

[Halley]

I’ve had small geckos. I don’t personally fell these geckos should be selected for, as they obviously have weak genetics.

 

[LeapinLizards]

I agree with Nick on this one. There are some morphs out there now that are genetically smaller in size than others (of normal size).

Just think about small breed dogs, like Chihuahuas. People selectively breed the tiny ones together, again and again, until the teacup Chihuahua was produced...and those dogs (at least every one I've ever seen, and a friend of ours breeds them) are a bundle of nerves, neurological issues, and almost impossible to train, BUT people want them because they are "cute" and "dainty".

I agree with Nick that the smaller sized geckos have weaker genetics, and it's not something that should be bred FOR.

It's in our human nature to "make" things that are cute, and unique. Now, you find every mix breed you can imagine...Peekapoo, Schnoodle, etc. It's not in the best interest for the dogs to mix breed them like that, nor do I feel it would be in the best interest of the geckos to breed small ones together to produce smaller sized babies.

 

[runko]

/\ agreed

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

I can see no flaw in Heathers logic, i would have to agree

 

[shadowx362]

they are great as personal pets, but realistically you cant keep all the babies so breeding would be unethical.

 

[jakemyster44]

also, eventually I would imagine you would reach a point when the female could not pass eggs; honestly this point would probably be reached pretty quicky. And I agree with everything stated above^^

 

[AntMan612]

Because of the egg binding issue, it sounds nearly impossible to selectively breed in order to produce miniature leopard geckos. It just wouldn't be sustainable if the females kept dying off. A very determined breeder would have to endure a high mortality rate until their colonies finally evolved into producing miniature eggs. On the other hand, selective breeding for other traits that doesn't result in higher mortality rates (or birth "defects") seems ethical enough for me. Isn't that what line breeding is?

 

[acpart]

I do agree that those tiny leos are cute. If you want to have your cake and eat it too, you can always start a colony of small geckos that are supposed to be that way because they're another species. That's why I have my 1.4colony of SW banded geckos (coleonyx). My biggest female is a whopping **fat** 11 grams!

Aliza

 

[lampeye]

Honestly, a genetically small gecko wouldn't be inherently unhealthy any more than a large one would be inherently healthy. IF there were single gene for it, it would depend on what physiological effects that gene had that made it regulate size. Most genes affect more than one physical property of an organism - it's called "pleiotropy." Sometimes these "side effects" are neutral, sometimes benign, and some are positively deleterious (a great example would be black angelfish).

But since we're talking about something theoretical, there's no way to predict what the pleiotropic effects would be.

 

[Baoh]

Honestly, a genetically small gecko wouldn't be inherently unhealthy any more than a large one would be inherently healthy. IF there were single gene for it, it would depend on what physiological effects that gene had that made it regulate size. Most genes affect more than one physical property of an organism - it's called "pleiotropy." Sometimes these "side effects" are neutral, sometimes benign, and some are positively deleterious (a great example would be black angelfish).

But since we're talking about something theoretical, there's no way to predict what the pleiotropic effects would be.

Exactly.

 

[SaSobek]

you guys are forgetting there is a subspecies (Eublepharis Macularius Afghanicus) that stays smaller, breeds smaller, lays smaller eggs, and the hatchlings are smaller. and the good part there is no genetic problems because this is just the way they are. if anything they are the fastest most robust geckos i have ever worked with.

more info here http://www.leopardgeckowiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Eublepharis_macularius_afghanicus


when crossed the babies do stay smaller but not as small as the pure Afghanicus we are working with our lines to make all morphs useing the Afghanicus crosses and to see if we can make in a way select your size geckos. maybe we can make a micro line of geckos just like there is a giant line.

i would think that this would be the best way to make smaller geckos. useing geckos that are just smaller because of an issue might not be the best way to do it because im sure that there may underlieing problems that wouldnt be good for the health of the gecko.

* Side note. It has been rumored that the giant line could have come from Subspecies as well. if that is true. that might be why they dont have issues.

 

[Baoh]

Use the canine analogy if you all might like to, but one need not pick the furthest extreme. A Jack Russel Terrier is a smaller dog that is perfectly fine and a good Alsatian is equally so. Teacup chihuahas might have problems as might Bull Mastiffs, but that doesn't mean disaster befalls something that deviates from the average of the two.

 

[hondawingsfly]

this thread became pretty interesting. i would also assume a smaller gecko would produce smaller eggs right? anyway its nothing im prepared to toy with but i just always wondered because there must be a tiny gene just like theres a giant one

 

[Zynx_Keekeio]

I agree with Nick on this one. There are some morphs out there now that are genetically smaller in size than others (of normal size).

Just think about small breed dogs, like Chihuahuas. People selectively breed the tiny ones together, again and again, until the teacup Chihuahua was produced...and those dogs (at least every one I've ever seen, and a friend of ours breeds them) are a bundle of nerves, neurological issues, and almost impossible to train, BUT people want them because they are "cute" and "dainty".

I agree with Nick that the smaller sized geckos have weaker genetics, and it's not something that should be bred FOR.

It's in our human nature to "make" things that are cute, and unique. Now, you find every mix breed you can imagine...Peekapoo, Schnoodle, etc. It's not in the best interest for the dogs to mix breed them like that, nor do I feel it would be in the best interest of the geckos to breed small ones together to produce smaller sized babies.

Whoa I agreed with everything up till the mixed breeds. Mixed breeds are probably more gentically correct than anyother because you are mixing the blood lines and creating a healthy dog who doesn't have the tendency to get genetic problems that come with that breed.

For example most mutts if not all I have ever met always live longer, are smarter, healthier and all that stuff. You get a purebred of anykind and it's like all these issues crop up, ears, eyes, stomach, bones. I'm telling you I think this venture into mixed breeds is a great thing for these dogs, because it's reopening the genetic pool..

Okay now I've had my two cents in, I'm good

 

[Gazz]

There are some possible ways.

Incubation temp could very likely cause dwarfism.

ALSO

How much food intake and the temp a young leo is rased on and in could be another cause of dwarfism.

AND

There are also some dwarf leo's about they look dumpy they only have room for one back band on there back.I'm not sure if there going to try and find out if it's genetic'etc or if there even going to breed from them.I think this is a condition called complex vertebral malformation-(CVM) this is a recessive trait but like i said this is not fact just my opinion.
Here's a link to a video clip of a dwarf leo.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Az6QbgHZU1c

ALSO

All are pet leo's the ones with all the avalible morphs are mass hybrids of the leo species,sub'species.One of these leo species E.M.AFGHANICUS this is a small species of leo.It is possible coz are leo's carry Afghancus blood that this gene if genetic in a pass on manner ?could? pop up time to time.Resulting in the odd little leo now and then.

 

[hondawingsfly]

well ive seen the dwarf geckos but those dont look right or healthy to me i mean just a small gecko but looks totally normal stays around 30-40g