Morph help?

[OhioGecko]

I originally thought this one was a normal but after a few sheds and 5 weeks later I think it is either a Hypo Co-Dom Snow or Cremsicle. What makes a Cremsicle? Both the parents are Hypo Co-Dom Snows from JMG Reptile. Here is a link to his Hypo/Cremsicle Snows. http://jmgreptile.com/shop/cat_19_0.html

1 week old
View attachment 13173

5 weeks old
View attachment 13174

Is this just a standard snow?
5 weeks old
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This is our first year hatching anything and there are so many variances in the morphs. Any clarification will be welcomed. Thanks!

 

[Ccrashca069]

That leopard in the middle looks like a Creamsicle to me. Congrats on the hatchlings. They are adorable

 

[PaintHorse]

Wow that last one is stunning!!

 

[fallen_angel]

that last one is definitely a snow, and a very beautiful one at that! not sure on the others, but the first one looks normal..i could be wrong.. Congrats on all of your babies!!

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

The top animal is not a creamsicle. A creamsicle is a hypo tangerine Mack snow. That animal is not a Mack snow. It will develop into a hypo or super hypo possibly a tangerine.

The second animal is a normal Mack snow.

 

[OhioGecko]

Thanks again Jeremy. I wasn't sure after looking at JMG's website. The Hypo looks alot like JMG's Super Hypo Snows but I thought you would have to prove them out first. To be certain one of the parents would have to be a Super Snow, right?

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Thanks again Jeremy. I wasn't sure after looking at JMG's website. The Hypo looks alot like JMG's Super Hypo Snows but I thought you would have to prove them out first. To be certain one of the parents would have to be a Super Snow, right?

A creamsicle is a hypo Mack snow.

With the term super hypo and a super snow, the word super means the highest form. They are not the same type of super though. I hope that made sense?

A super hypo means the highest for of hypo. Hypo means reduced spotting, super hypo means no spotting.

A super Mack snow is the highest form of Mack snow. You do know what a super snow looks like right? Black and whit with stripes or broken stripes and solid black eyes.


Does that help?

 

[OhioGecko]

A creamsicle is a hypo Mack snow.

With the term super hypo and a super snow, the word super means the highest form. They are not the same type of super though. I hope that made sense?

A super hypo means the highest for of hypo. Hypo means reduced spotting, super hypo means no spotting.

A super Mack snow is the highest form of Mack snow. You do know what a super snow looks like right? Black and whit with stripes or broken stripes and solid black eyes.


Does that help?

Yes I do know what a SS looks like, here is a picture of our first hatchling a 5wks. SS
View attachment 13189

I just don't understand how JMG could know he has a Super Hypo Snow @ 30g without proving it. Or did he breed two hypo snows together, produce a super snow and breed the SS back to a hypo snow? Guaranteing all hatchlings to be snow with any hypos being hypo snows or super hypo snows? He also lists the cremsicles, hypo snows, and super hypo snows? I understand the difference between hypo, and super hypo but not the cremsicle. If Cremsicle is the same as hypo or super hypo why would he list different?

I hope I'm not making this too confusing. I am really interested in the genetics and the differences of the names.

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

You are definately making it too confusing. lol

If you know the difference between a hypo and a super hypo then you know the difference between a hypo snow and a super hypo snow. The only difference between the them is the added snow gene.

There is currently no super hypo super Mack.

There is no gaurentee that a super hypo will produce all hypos or super hypos.

 

[Mel&Keith]

Have you read JMG's explanation? http://jmgreptile.com/cremesicles.html

 

[OhioGecko]

Have you read JMG's explanation? http://jmgreptile.com/cremesicles.html

I did not see that on their site, I was looking under the available pages for a description. :main_laugh:

That explains what I was looking for. Thank You.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Thad,

It is very easy to tell the Macks from the normals at hatching. The normals are normal, no matter what they turn into. If they hatch as a Snow "anything"(morph), you will know it upon hatching.

Macks hatch black and white with a few exceptions, and normals hatch black and yellow.

 

[OhioGecko]

Thad,

It is very easy to tell the Macks from the normals at hatching. The normals are normal, no matter what they turn into. If they hatch as a Snow "anything"(morph), you will know it upon hatching.

Macks hatch black and white with a few exceptions, and normals hatch black and yellow.

Thanks for posting Dan. I can spot a snow, but I didn't know what a hypo/super hypo snow hatchling looks like. I know they can be produced with the genetics from the two we breed but I don't know how to tell if it is a normal hypo/super hypo or hypo/super hypo mack. I did more digging on JMG's website and found some pics of hypo/super hypo macks and cremsicle hatchlings. They basically have orange instead of black on them with the high contrast white.

On a side note the leos are all doing great. The gal messed up in shipping is putting on some weight and all the bruising has healed. She hasn't recovered any use in her feet though. The other 3 are doing great and eating well. I have them all together and the females definately rule the roost. They have mated and we are just waiting on eggs to be laid.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

I see what you were saying. Yea the H/SH Macks hatch out pretty much the same as the non Hypo Macks, only lighter, more grey colored(some of them). As you can see in the pic below.

That orangish coloring on most of them comes after the black/grey banding fades to lavender. Then you get the "hypo-ing out" effect where the yellow, starts to cover up the lavender. Giving the yellow, a more orange appearance, where they overlap. Here is a pic of my first generation Mack X SHTCTB. Yep, that`s him at hatching.

This is not to say, some do not have actual orange on them. Especially since they have gone a few seasons, since I first made my SH Macks. People have bred them back to Super Hypos, to eachother, etc and increased the amount of orange. I prefer the very first generation, of SH Macks, as they kept a more muted snow-like appearance. There are some great looking orange ones, but I just can`t call that a "snow", so I do not like them as much. Thats just me, but I also like non-yellow Blizzards. Darn pesky yellow/orange, sometimes ya` wish it would not come through. LOL

Glad to hear she is doing a little better, and the others are doing well. Thanks!

 

[OhioGecko]

I see what you were saying. Yea the H/SH Macks hatch out pretty much the same as the non Hypo Macks, only lighter, more grey colored(some of them). As you can see in the pic below.

That orangish coloring on most of them comes after the black/grey banding fades to lavender. Then you get the "hypo-ing out" effect where the yellow, starts to cover up the lavender. Giving the yellow, a more orange appearance, where they overlap. Here is a pic of my first generation Mack X SHTCTB. Yep, that`s him at hatching.

This is not to say, some do not have actual orange on them. Especially since they have gone a few seasons, since I first made my SH Macks. People have bred them back to Super Hypos, to eachother, etc and increased the amount of orange. I prefer the very first generation, of SH Macks, as they kept a more muted snow-like appearance. There are some great looking orange ones, but I just can`t call that a "snow", so I do not like them as much. Thats just me, but I also like non-yellow Blizzards. Darn pesky yellow/orange, sometimes ya` wish it would not come through. LOL

Glad to hear she is doing a little better, and the others are doing well. Thanks!

Dan, thanks for the pics that helped me understand the differences. The leos by JMG are 3rd gen and breed to Super/S.Hypos like you said. Here is the description from the website.

"They usually can't be made by just one or two generations of breeding Co-dominant snows to super hypos. All of the cremesicles that we are selling in 2007 are third generation super hypo X hypo/ super hypo Co-dominant snows"

OK, I think I'm finally getting a grip on these. Thanks again!:main_thumbsup: