my crotalus helleri

[M_surinamensis]

No matter if it is legal or not, and no matter if the owner knew it was legal or not, this was not the time, or place, to say

I am certain that the moderators would have let me know if that were the case.

whom you all are making to seem like a criminal

He's breaking the law. By definition, he is a criminal.

 

[leolover23]

That's your opinion, but regardless of those two points you've quoted, I believe you've completely disregarded my other points made, such as the well being of the pet and the reluctance of the owner to listen to your advice.

 

[T-ReXx]

I don't believe anyone here has stepped out of line in questioning the keeping of this animal. Regardless of how the OP reacts to the legality of his/her actions being questions, the fact is they need to be questioned. If you are keeping a species illegally then you are keeping a species illegally. And, I might add, that capturing and keeping a protected species is not "rescuing it." If the animal was in a dangerous situation, the correct action is to either a) remove it from the situation and release it nearby in a safe location, or b) contact the correct authorities and allow them to handle it. Capturing the animal and then keeping when it is in a potentially dangerous location is not the same as capturing the animal and releasing it away from said location.

As far as feeling "attacked" well if one cannot accept criticism of one's practices then one obviously is not confident enough in the correctness of those practices. If I tell you you shouldn't be keeping your leopard gecko on sand because it can cause impactions it doesn't matter if you feel "attacked" you are doing something wrong and should be corrected. Whether or not you choose to correct those actions is not something I can control, but it is my responsibility to make sure that the point is established firmly. Now, I don't know if collecting and keeping this particular species is illegal in California, I don't live in California and I don't personally collect and keep native species, so that point is mute. However, I do know that if such activity is suspected of being illegal, then concerns need to be voiced. As far as private VS. openly discussed matters like this, the fact is, the OP posted this thread, openly mentioned the animal was collected from the wild, and in doing so gives full permission for anyone viewing this thread to voice facts and opinions related to it. Covering it up to make the OP "more comfortable" is counterproductive to the entire point of the entire thing, and will only encourage others to do the same in other threads.

And fact is, if anyone was actually "out of line" here the mods would indeed step in, and collecting and keeping a protected species is in fact breaking a law and does in fact make one a criminal. Changing the descriptive words to something judged "less harsh" doesn't change the facts involved. If are speeding and get a ticket or you are driving while intoxicated you are still breaking the law in both senarios and are still classified as a criminal.

 

[Tony C]

Discussion and debate are both allowed and encouraged as long as the conversation stays civil. I haven't seen anyone get out of line in this thread yet.

 

[T-ReXx]

Added note:

According to the Californiaherps.com website, as of 2010 no license of any kind is required for the collection or keeping of native rattlesnakes. There is a two-snake limit per species. Crotalus is in fact the genus covering all US rattlesnakes, so this animal is in fact unprotected from collection on a state level.

 

[IronGecko]

In that case maybe he should have updated his law pages before questioning his practice!

 

[Tony C]

In that case maybe he should have updated his law pages before questioning his practice!

There is nothing wrong with asking questions, and he did state early on that it had been 10 years since he read up on California laws. Every keeper should be familiar with the laws of their state, if you ask me about the legality of any of my animals I can pull up the relevant document and point to them on the list.

 

[IronGecko]

I understand there is nothing wrong with asking questions, that wasn't my point.

 

[evanthedudeSD]

The idea that a fishing permit is a substitute for the permits required to keep a regulated species is absurd, reinforcing the impression that the OP is keeping this animal illegally and, further, doesn't even know what the legality of his action is. He found it and stuck it in a tank and clearly does not care if it is legal or not.

a california sportfishing license is required to collect native species snakes here in california. i'm sorry that you feel that it is absurd. however when it comes to rattlesnakes here in california no permit or license is required to collect any rattlesnake species. i've already provided the link to the Department of Fish and Game laws. its on the first page actually.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg1502.pdf
§5.60. Reptiles.
(a) General Provisions: Only the following reptiles may be
taken under the authority of a sportfishing license, subject to the
restrictions in this section. The limit for each of the species listed
below is two, unless otherwise provided. Limit, as used in this
section, means daily bag and possession limit. No reptiles shall
be taken from ecological reserves designated by the commission
in Section 630 or from state parks, or national parks or monuments.
(b) No sportfishing license is required for the sport take of
any rattlesnake.

i understand you might not be updated with the current regulations as you have stated earlier. but i'm trying to help clear up the legalities with you. i believe this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. i understand your concern for abiding the laws because i share the same concerns. but it seems this is getting personal. its really up to you to believe the california laws that have been stated.

 

[evanthedudeSD]

If it is legal, which I'm still on the fence about, then ok... Sorry for the issue.

Oh, and I did check out your links. The fishing license is for handling, not keeping wildlife.

the license is for taking wildlife. I'll admit, the department of fish and game does make it pretty confusing, so I'm not upset with you for not understanding.

Are crotalus helleri considered a rattlesnake? What I saw classified them as a pit viper, which would classify them differently in regards to restriction.

just to clear it up, the word crotalus actually means rattlesnake.

 

[Neverstops]

Just want to say that is a beautiful snake and good luck with it...Ive always loved rattlesnakes and that one is a superb snake for being caught in the backyard...just awesome