New Morph Frostsicle????

[Paco]

I just wanted to also let everyone Know I have let *** know I started this thread over here.

I have been back and forth with him about the situation and he has been very cool about it. Trying to explain his reasoning behind it. Which I completely understand as well. May not agree with it but understand it 100%.

 

[Wandering Paddle]

My guess is this guy has no idea what he has and got something mislabeled.
Now he is backed in a corner and doesnt want to reveal that he doesnt have a clue about anything he is selling in his bulk. he probably wouldnt know a dreamsicle from a nova... but like paco said, its not that he buys bulk and re-sells. its that he has a 'morph' that he wont explain anything about

 

[Paco]

The pic of the supposed "Abyssinian" used to be labeled as a Super Snow het RAPTOR before the label in the pic was shopped out. I also am not aware of anyone mass-producing Super Snow RAPTORs.

Not that it means anything, but the pic of the hand in a certain advertisement shot also does not match the pics on his MS profile. He could simply have had another person holding the animal for the shot, though.

The "Frostcicle" is likely just a MS RAPTOR or MS RAPTOR (hypo or whatever) variant if it's even anything at all.

Baoh... Do you remember seeing the pics from Before they were changed???

It is supposed to be an Abbyssinian Snow Raptor. He finally told me.

So now I can see why he did not want to release the info. I told him the Abby Morph is Not established yet and people in the Community are still VERY Unsure of the Genetics and what they do. Hardly anyone is working with them and I don't think Ron has sold 1 all year. So a have a sense why he wanted to keep it a secret, because I am sure all he would have gotten is hard time from most because the Majority of the Leo community is not sold on the ABBY's right now.

 

[Baoh]

Baoh... Do you remember seeing the pics from Before they were changed???

It is supposed to be an Abbyssinian Snow Raptor. He finally told me.

So now I can see why he did not want to release the info. I told him the Abby Morph is Not established yet and people in the Community are still VERY Unsure of the Genetics and what they do. Hardly anyone is working with them and I don't think Ron has sold 1 all year. So a have a sense why he wanted to keep it a secret, because I am sure all he would have gotten is hard time from most because the Majority of the Leo community is not sold on the ABBY's right now.

The pic I am talking about that had the label whited out was not of the "Frostcicle". It was of the one currently being called the "Abyssinian". Before a change a few weeks back, the label said "Super Snow het RAPTOR" and had either the male or female symbol next to the name. I forget which. All I remember was that and that he described the Super Snow het RAPTORs as being unusual/different looking or whatever. I knew that the label had to be incorrect, so I just figured there was a mistake on the part of the person advertising. Whether that mistake is a matter of understanding morphs or leaving the wrong label in the pic is not something I was or am concerned by. Then the label was whited out in future incarnations of the ad.

I did not think to get a screen shot of it as it had never been of particular importance to me. It was too big of a mistake for me to overlook, though, so I decided not to make a purchase I had intended to make. It may mean nothing at all, but I find it alarming when other people don't seem to know what they are selling, so I wasn't interested in ruining one of my projects by taking a chance. I was already burned once by another breeder. Not this guy. This guy may be fine, but it's my money, and I'll do as I please with it.

Maybe someone who is good with the waybackmachine or other online tools can find the old pic. I've never messed with that sort of thing.

 

[Baoh]

Found it. The pic of what I am talking about is originally labeled Super Snow het RAPTOR, although no male/female symbol in this version.

 

[snowgyre]

I do not personally know ***, however, he has been in the Reptile hobby for awhile. Just because he is not known for leopard geckos is no reason to bash him. If you do not like what he has to say, then don't buy from him.

I agree completely that no one should be publicly 'bashed' (private ranting is another thing altogether) about any breeder. However, I believe that breeders/sellers/wholesalers should be accountable for the animals they advertise. I have no problem with wholesalers, but I do have a problem when wholesalers pose themselves as breeders. If you purchased an animal, depending on the advertised genetics for a breeding program, I know I personally would be very upset to learn that the gecko I purchased was not, in fact, carrying the genes I had spent money to get.

I realize that one must tread very carefully in any business when the accountability of a party is brought into question. I recall very, very clearly when my own accountability was attacked based upon a simple misunderstanding, and it was one of the most miserable experiences I've had. I hope I speak for most of us when I say we wish no ill will to any reptile hobbiest or breeder without having damning evidence that they were indeed conducting bad business.

His animals all look very healthy, his prices are reasonable, and you can see what you're getting with the photos. I think this is all very rectifiable if he would admit publicly that he's a distributor, not a breeder. And, perhaps he can learn from this and remember to get good information from his suppliers in the future? One negative experience should never condemn an individual, especially if there is no proof of a scam.

Please, I urge all of you to avoid using the derogatory terms such as 'scammer' until we actually do figure this relatively minor, I believe, situation out. Once one's reputation is ruined, it's very difficult to get it back, and wouldn't we all feel like dirt if we ruined the reputation of an otherwise good guy?

 

[Baoh]

All- To clarify my position, I am not saying he's an anything. I've just noticed some inconsistencies, which I have made mention of above, and inconsistencies make me more hesitant to part ways with my money.

Paco- You've got mail. I am not sold on the Abyssinian morph at all and it will require a heap of strong evidence to change my mind. By the metrics given, my past Eclipses had thrown Abyssinians since their first clutches. I'm not going to relabel the wheel as a special "sphere slice" to try and boost sales. That's just not how I operate. If others want to, that's their business.

 

[Paco]

It is supposed to be an Abbyssinian Snow Raptor. He finally told me.

OK everyone I am going to retract this Statement. Apparently I read what Matt had written wrong. He said, he did not say He had a Snow Abby Raptor, is what he recently wrote me.

 

[KelliH]

I am editing out the name of the person in question. I am at a show this weekend, otherwise this would have been done sooner. Threads about the morph/gecko in question are fine, but I don't allow bashing of any sort about anyone here. Go start a thread on Fauna if you want to discuss other breeders.

 

[KelliH]

Well I'm just going to close the thread for now and edit later. It's too much of a pain to edit since I'm posting from my G1 phone.

 

[KelliH]

I do not personally know ***, however, he has been in the Reptile hobby for awhile. Just because he is not known for leopard geckos is no reason to bash him. If you do not like what he has to say, then don't buy from him.

If anyone would have taken the time to check his KS account, he has been a registerd member sice '04. That is longer than most of you...

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