New Reasurch in to euthanasia

[Fencer04]

Well said Seamus, I agree. Also, not to be the spelling police, but any student that misspells research this much and doesn't correct themselves isn't helping their cause. I won't go into the other spelling mistakes or lack of grammar.

The argument at hand is way more complicated than you are letting on. Ending a life is painful in many ways. I'd rather choose a method that is going to get the job done 100% of the time and not be predicated on me having good aim under stress.

 

[TokayKeeper]

The argument at hand is way more complicated than you are letting on. Ending a life is painful in many ways. I'd rather choose a method that is going to get the job done 100% of the time and not be predicated on me having good aim under stress.

I've only skimmed this thread, but most likely the answer to your 100% quest would be a barbiturate, possibly EuthaSol® which is a Pentobarbital. Another possible route might be a ketamine/xylazine cocktail administered in an overdose. These were chemical routes to rapid euthanasia used while I was an ABSL-3 (Animal Bio-Safety Level - 3) necropsy laboratory technician for a local respiratory research facility. HOWEVER, use of such chemicals are only by certified individuals as they are controlled substances that are tracked by the DEA. At my former place of employment, we had to account for every drop or face losing your security clearance which = losing your job.

 

[Baoh]

New research has just been carried out, conformed and released by reptile vets and specialists, stating that euthanizing your reptiles by freezing is extremely painful and an unacceptably cruel way to end your reptiles life.
Extensive research has revealed that reptiles put in the freezer enter a torpid state in which it remains mentally alert and able to experience pain and distress while being physically unable to move. The animal remains ALIVE as its blood and tissues begin to freeze and crystallise.

*This statement is from next months practical reptile

As a researcher, I would like a citation for this (the emboldened) in a peer-reviewed and reputable journal that has KOLs which have both the breadth and depth to evaluate the subject. I am looking forward to said source so I can read the manuscript itself.

Also, it's very interesting to see that there there must now be some objective scale of cruelty. I am really looking forward to the original work, as this should be groundbreaking in that regard.

I am curious and excited to be able to evaluate the methodology employed to determine what has been stated.

I don't need a copy. I just need the proper citation and I can obtain a copy myself. I have not looked into this subject in quite a while.

 

[Herp Lover]

CO2 euthanization

Is CO2 a ok method of putting Geckos to sleep? And would you do it the same way as a rodent? Thanks

 

[sausage]

Well said Seamus, I agree. Also, not to be the spelling police, but any student that misspells research this much and doesn't correct themselves isn't helping their cause. I won't go into the other spelling mistakes or lack of grammar.

Just because i have dyslexia dosnt mean i stupid and i dont know what im talking!!!

 

[sausage]

As a researcher, I would like a citation for this (the emboldened) in a peer-reviewed and reputable journal that has KOLs which have both the breadth and depth to evaluate the subject. I am looking forward to said source so I can read the manuscript itself.

Also, it's very interesting to see that there there must now be some objective scale of cruelty. I am really looking forward to the original work, as this should be groundbreaking in that regard.

I am curious and excited to be able to evaluate the methodology employed to determine what has been stated.

I don't need a copy. I just need the proper citation and I can obtain a copy myself. I have not looked into this subject in quite a while.

I am trying to get hold of the original reasurch but havnt herd any thing yet but was writen by Hannah Salisbury M.Sc. B.Sc. (Hons) AnSci

 

[Dragonfly_Dust]

Personally when I had to put my gecko down due to its massive seizure attacks, I never once thought about putting him in the freezer. I went straight to my vet where she administered it with anesthesia. I personally don't agree with the freezer method.

Not want to go off-topic but if you do have to euthanize reptiles at home, is it more ethical to use a home-made gas chamber? There's tutorials online to create home-made gas chambers to ethically pre-kill feeder rodents so wouldn't that work for reptiles as well?

 

[drblack2013]

It would be if the CO2 concentrations are high enough. Animals entering an anoxic environment lose consciousness rapidly.

 

[M_surinamensis]

There's tutorials online to create home-made gas chambers to ethically pre-kill feeder rodents so wouldn't that work for reptiles as well?

They can, if they are used correctly.

Relative to mammals, reptiles have pretty low oxygen requirements though. So using carbon dioxide to asphyxiate them usually necessitates a higher concentration over a longer period of time. Reptiles are substantially more likely to appear deceased upon visual assessment, only to later revive if removed from the chamber too soon, as a result of a metabolic rate that falls below the ability to easily identify upon visual analysis. Er... sometimes they can appear dead, but aren't, because their respiration and pulse are slower than a mammal's.

A better constructed home made carbon dioxide chamber could be adjusted for reptile euthanasia. Some of the less well designed or constructed types wouldn't be a good choice.

And of course, used incorrectly, it's a method which can cause more harm and suffering than it alleviates. That applies to all methods pretty much equally though, so it's not unique to carbon dioxide chambers, freezers, spinal dislocation, chemical euthanasia agents or anything else.

Something I should remember to mention... I remembered it the last four or five euthanasia threads but missed it so far in this one... local laws for animal euthanasia can vary. Whenever someone is selecting the best method for the animal in question, they should always make sure they are choosing an option which is legal. Who and how are sometimes aspects which are controlled, in some places, sometimes. Sometimes the laws make distinctions between types of animals and even types of owners (pet shops, for example, are sometimes faced with additional restrictions). The applicable laws can vary from place to place, knowing which ones apply is an important part of making the right decision.

 

[im faster]

Just because i have dyslexia dosnt mean i stupid and i dont know what im talking!!!

Firefox and google chrome i know have spell check built in. if you using one of them its not dyslexia thats your problem.

 

[Kristi23]

Putting them directly in the freezer does sound bad. You put them in the fridge for a couple hours first. They slow down and go to sleep, but aren't dead yet. After that, they go in the freezer.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Ya know everyone picking on sausage for her language should be ashamed. She isn't even from the u.s, has tried to bring us some useful info and all ya can do is pick on her spelling and grammer skills. Geeze... seriously?

Thankyou seamus for the gas chamber info. I was hoping you'd chime in with that as you have in prevous threads. It's looking like the most humane euth methods are spinal dislocation or a crushing blow or injectable euth agents administered by a vet. I don't think putting a leo in a fridge first to put them "to sleep" makes any kind of sense... putting in a freezer directly would/should do the same thing in theory of putting to sleep thru cold but that has been proven painful and inhumane so I think in some way you might be kinda fooling yourself a little thinking refrigeration then freezer is any more friendly a method for euth.

 

[Fencer04]

From what I can tell she is from England and is talking about an English magazine. I'd hardly say that means there is a problem with the English language related location. Also, when defending herself she refers to dyslexia, not it being a foreign language.

I didn't say she is stupid, I'm just saying that regardless of the root of the problem it causes a credibility issue. Also, my father has dyslexia so I know that it doesn't reflect the intellectual capabilities of an individual. However, it does affect reading comprehension which furthers my point about wanting to read the original piece and the possibility of sausage misunderstanding or not getting all the pertinent info.

I agree with Dog Shrink about the refrigerator to freezer thing. I would think that it just prolongs the process possibly even making it more painful.

 

[Baoh]

I am trying to get hold of the original reasurch but havnt herd any thing yet but was writen by Hannah Salisbury M.Sc. B.Sc. (Hons) AnSci

Looking forward to that.

Who wrote it is irrelevant to the body of evidence it should present and the process it should be vetted by, by the way.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I will cite some excellent references for data on reptile and amphibian euthanasia (besides tons of papers by Frederic L. Frye):

"Reptile Medicine and Surgery", 1996, 2006 by Douglas R. Mader, MS, DVM, DABVP

"AVMA Panel on Reptile Euthanasia", 2000/American Veterinary Medical Assoc. 218(5): 669-696, 2001

"Euthanasia Methods for Ectothermic Vertebrates" R. Burns, B. McMahan 1995

"Euthanasia of Reptiles and Amphibians", 1989 J.E. Cooper, R. Ewebank, E. Platt et al, Universities Federation for Animal Welfare Potters Bar, England

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

There is an existing thread on this topic:
http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=75333

 

[Kristi23]

I will cite some excellent references for data on reptile and amphibian euthanasia (besides tons of papers by Frederic L. Frye):

"Reptile Medicine and Surgery", 1996, 2006 by Douglas R. Mader, MS, DVM, DABVP

"AVMA Panel on Reptile Euthanasia", 2000/American Veterinary Medical Assoc. 218(5): 669-696, 2001

"Euthanasia Methods for Ectothermic Vertebrates" R. Burns, B. McMahan 1995

"Euthanasia of Reptiles and Amphibians", 1989 J.E. Cooper, R. Ewebank, E. Platt et al, Universities Federation for Animal Welfare Potters Bar, England

You use the fridge to freezer method, right? I know that I learned it from others here on gf.

 

[drblack2013]

Within the USA the methods described and approved on page 20 of this

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf

are what should be used.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread, is feeding off a baby that isn't going to survive (for whatever reasons). It's what happens in the wild to weak animals. But in the case of a diseased animal, you wouldn't want to risk the health of another animal by feeding it off, and another method would be recommended.

 

[im faster]

you mean page 23