"Otherwise I'll be releasing them into the wild" - New owner, general questions, and

[2.5geckos]

"Otherwise I'll be releasing them into the wild" - New owner, general questions, etc.

Yesterday I was lucky enough to intercept a craigslist ad before these guys had to pack their bags and fend for themselves!

The previous owner had made a post in the free section that essentially summarized to: "Free geckos and living quarters. These will be released into the wild if not taken quickly". Fast forward two hours and I'm back at the apartment with Charlie and Alan -

I was told they were both male, and roughly 3-4 years of age (purchased in 2008). Apparently they have never been aggressive/territorial towards each other, and have been housed together since adolescence. Both are extremely docile and do not mind human interaction at all (apparently they watched tv on the couch almost every night with the owner and his cat).

The previous owner used a heated blanket for under the tank heating, an electric heat stone, and a 60w bulb (maintained 85-87* warm side). I was told he fed them 50 crickets, dusted, (dump them all in at once) on a weekly basis. The 15 gal long tank had very little calcium-sand substrate on one half and some coconut husks on the other. Two small hides on the cool side with a water dish.

The larger of the two, I was told, will happily eat crickets, meal worms, super worms, etc but the smaller of the two will typically choose not eating over anything BUT crickets.

Right now I am trying to keep them as comfortable as possible after the huge environment change and trying not to stress them out too much by over-handling. They tend to be sticking to their hides for now (after the initial few hours of walking around intently watching my every move).... Their cage was a mess and cleaning had been neglected for quite some time so I'm sure that living on a surface other than glass covered primarily in excrement, is a big change for them (calcium sand substrate, repti bark).

I am currently using an electric heating stone and 60w bulb and have 90* warm-side but I plan on purchasing an under the tank heating mat and replacing the heating stone with some sort of basking stone. I switched one of the hides with a significantly larger one and both geckos seem to appreciate it. If both continue to now alienate the smaller hide, I will probably hasten my search for a larger living environment in general.

After a 24 hour crash-course in leos via the internet, I definitely feel this community has bounds of priceless information. I have taken note of a few questions that have arose, any help would be appreciated. I was searching for a general/combined FAQ on this site with no luck, so admittedly if I missed "the big one", please point me in that direction.

Primarily, what can you tell me from the pictures (approx age, sex, conditions, type, etc)? Also, what is the best feeding schedule? A 24-hour rundown of their temperature/lighting schedule? Any additional bits of knowledge are helpful.

Thanks, and I'm sure I'll be posting more long-winded situations/questions as the days pass.

 

[Josm315]

Seems like your method of attachment isn't working. I would recommend using the "Insert Image" option bundled with photobucket or another photo host to get your pictures up.

The feeding schedule doesn't really matter as far as I know. Whatever fits with your schedule really. They are nocturnal animals though, so you may have more success with active feeding in the evening. Leo's aren't really capable of overeating (if they do, they quickly regurgitate a bit and learn their lesson). But from what you know about the previous owner, I'm sure they would easily adjust to what you want to work with. Just try not to leave crickets in the enclosure for too long, as they have the tendency to nibble on toes and tails if not in check.

As long as you have a temperature gradient and it's from an under tank heating source at the appropriate temperatures, you should be fine with leaving it like that all day. No real temperature change schedule needed. Since they are nocturnal, no lighting schedule is really needed; however, from what I've seen, some people recommend a 12 hour day/night cycle in lighting.

Your choice of substrate is a bit of a touchy subject in the leo community. Calcium sand, reptibark, and other loose substrate are usually frowned upon. Paper towels or tile are usually recommended.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

I think that a heating stone is a bad idea. They can get too hot and actually burn the little guys. All you need is a under tank heater on one side of the tank. Forget about the lights, they stress out leopard geckos, unless you like to use an infared light for at night. Don't make it too complicated. Leopard geckos are pretty easy to take care of with simple enclosures. A couple hides on each side and make sure there's a humid hide filled with moist peat moss or vermiculite or even wet paper towels. I agree with the floor substrate either being paper towels or slate stone. Some use cermaic tile as well. Good luck.

 

[TokayKeeper]

Forget about the lights, they stress out leopard geckos,...

I really wish this ignorance would stop being perpetuated.

 

[Tico]

Love the user Handle Matched to the gecko's Name and welcome to GF !

 

[LZRDGRL]

Nice big fat healthy geckos!! A rare find on Craig List. However, if they are males you must separate them. Most likely, one is a female. Just look under their tails. They're old enough to tell at the first glance :main_yes:

Chrissy

 

[Franklinj480]

I really wish this ignorance would stop being perpetuated.

please, enlighten us

 

[Wild West Reptile]

"Ignorance"? Yes, please enlighten us. I have albino geckos and they HATE the light. I also have several other morphs that run and hide when I used to have lighting on top of my cage. So I am SOOOOO sorry that I am ignorant Tokay. Being you are all knowing please let this forum know the only way to keep leopard geckos. I was only giving a suggestion to help with the new setup. Where my other suggestions "ignorant" as well? Pleaseeeeee enlighten us.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

Oh wait. I just realized why I got picked out for "ignorance". I agreed with using paper towels or tile for substrate. I should of suggested using play sand I guess. That way he will have some more challenges for his new gecko setup. More ignorance on my part. My bad.

 

[OnlineGeckos]

You did good picking them up, they wouldn't survive in the wild after being captive bred & housed for so long. They have fat tails, that's an indication they are well fed and healthy. There are no visible defects from those pictures, they're both very cute geckos.

To get them properly sexed, take pictures of their under side, especially the section of their tail where it connects into their butt. People here can help you identify their sex. It's entirely possible they are both males if they were raised from babies together and they have never been in contact with females. They also seem to be evenly sized, so that's a good thing. If they're both males I'd suggest watch them carefully, make sure there's no bullying and that both get plenty to eat during feed time.

It helps to establish a feeding schedule, once a day or once every other day. Observe how much they eat and how quickly they finish them within 15 mins. Make sure if you feed them crickets, to wait for them to eat them in 15 mins, and take out the rest. Crickets will eat gecko poop, and thus could ingest parasites, which then get passed down into your leo's stomach. They also are known for bugging your leopard geckos, some even biting on the leo's soft parts. So if you feed crickets, observe the feed, and fish out left over crickets.

An under tank heatpad is absolutely necessary, you want to have it on 24/7. Heat stones aren't good as they can get too hot and your leo's stomach can get burned. Make sure to give them 3 hides, one on the warm side, on on the cool side, and one somewhere in the middle where you stuff moist moss or paper towels inside. Since you have 2 leopard geckos, I'd recommend more than 3 hides to make sure each of them have plenty of room and hide space. Warm spot should hit 90-95 degrees, no higher. Cool side should hover around low 80's or so.

When you get a chance, possibly next time you plan on cleaning the cage, go to homedepot or lowes, etc.. to get some slate tiles. Make sure they would fit in your cage, some stores will even cut them for you. Replace the substrate you have inside now with slate tiles (or ceramic), they'll be ideal to free you of any worries later on with impaction. Slate tiles are ideal because they're cheap ($1 per 12 x 12), easy to clean, conduct heat very well, zero impaction problems, and it usually makes the environment a lot more clean and natural looking.

Leopard geckos don't really need basking lights. My leos always run for cover when lights are on during the day, so after a month of using it I stopped it. Now they lay around sleeping without hiding, I think they're much happier that way. For night time viewing, use a low wattage red bulb. Red light does not bother them, and it will allow you to watch them when they're most active as they are nocturnal. Night time is also the best time to feed them.

Good luck and kudos to you for saving a couple leopard geckos!

 

[lillith]

An easy way to get a picture of their underside is to put them in a glass dish, lift overhead, and click quickly! Use flash and make sure you don't have overhead light behind them. Another way would be to press them up against the side of the tank gently for a similar effect, but they will like that a lot less.

They really look quite healthy, I'm just wondering if you have calcium and vitamin powder for them (I might have missed that part)? You're really awesome for picking them up, whatever CL twit wanted to dump them should be...soundly spanked...or worse. :main_angry:

I really wish this ignorance would stop being perpetuated.

I inadvertently kept my first geckos with day and night bulbs for the first 3 years, and I NEVER saw them. Switching to a red bulb, and then later, UTH systems, they certainly show themselves a LOT more. They will survive with daybulbs, but mine did not thrive with them. I cringe at what I didn't know then, knowing what I know now...and there is always more to learn.

You can do it your way, if your geckos are happy, and that's fine. But there is a consensus, and day lights are not part of it. Don't insist on your way all the time as The One True Way, and others are less likely to.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

The geckos appear to be well-fed and healthy! If they are both males, chances are they have been housed together all their lives and have not established any real male dominance and territorial boundaries. I guarantee that if a female was in the vicinity, that they would fight. It's hard to tell, but there is one photo that actually looks like it could be female, as I didn't see any hemipenile bulges... but it could just be the camera angle.

Something we must keep in mind, is that since leopard geckos are primarily nocturnal, their eyes are not adapted and are sensitive to bright light... especially albinos. All a leopard gecko needs is a natural light cycle, and the light through a window to tell them whether it's day time or night time is sufficient.

 

[gothra]

The geckos look great! From the pictures, I can only say they are adults, its impossible to tell the exact age; and we need to see their underside to tell the gender. I'd say they are both high yellows. I use undertank heating mat to provide heat 24/7, I don't induce a night-time drop. If the previous owner has been keeping the warm temps at 85-87 (surface temp?), perhaps you can just slightly raise that to 88-90F. Some of us here prefer to keep them at a higher temp, but since your new geckos were used to a lower temp, I wouldn't make a big jump now. For adults, you can feed every 2nd or 3rd day; I usually only offer 3-4 crickets every 2nd day.

As for artificial lightings, they will not be stressed out as long as they have places to shade or hide from the lights. That's what they do in the wild too; the lux level in an overcast day is easily over 10000lx; you'll never be able to achieve that with a light bulb. But as Marcia said, artificial light is not a necessity; they'll do fine with diffused window light.

 

[2.5geckos]

Wow! What a resource! I look forward to addressing comments/questions tomorrow morning when I can put forth the appropirate time.

Until then,

Thanks folks!

 

[TokayKeeper]

please, enlighten us

"Ignorance"? Yes, please enlighten us. I have albino geckos and they HATE the light.

This is due to lack of melanin production and thus lack of melanin present in the eye, which is why the eyes of many reptilian albinos are red. The red coloration is due to light reflecting off of blood vessels within the eye structure; similar to what happens in photographs taken with flash directed straight into the eye, aka red-eye.

I also have several other morphs that run and hide when I used to have lighting on top of my cage. So I am SOOOOO sorry that I am ignorant Tokay.

Apology accepted, don't let it happen again... </ sarcasm >

Being you are all knowing please let this forum know the only way to keep leopard geckos. I was only giving a suggestion to help with the new setup.

Not all knowing, but I do know what works or has worked for me. I've had leos since 1996. I've had them in 10, 20, 30, 40 gallon tanks, and even tubs. I've illuminated those tanks (not the tubs) with plain ole incandescents, fluorescents, and both. I still have such cages to this day setup in the same manner. However, none of those cages house albinos, but they do house geckos with normal pigmentation on up to hypos.

Where my other suggestions "ignorant" as well? Pleaseeeeee enlighten us.

I don't know where your other suggestions were ignorant, the better question is were they....where they were asked?

Oh wait. I just realized why I got picked out for "ignorance". I agreed with using paper towels or tile for substrate. I should of suggested using play sand I guess.

Wrong again, but thanks for replying emotionally instead of level headed. You were (there's that funky spelling again..where, were, LOL) picked on due to my frustration of the recapitulation of the chicken little style of "OMG, OHHH nooooooooos, the sky, eetz fallingz cuz youz gotz lighting on a leopard gecko cage otherz dan a red light for viewingz. Youz gonna strezz dat gecko out." Pssst, I'll let you in on a little personal secret. I only keep my adults on sand. Adults = 50+ grams or 1 year of age in my colony. Everyone else is on paper towels. But thanks for assuming about me.

That way he will have some more challenges for his new gecko setup. More ignorance on my part. My bad.

You already apologized once...sheesh. :main_thumbsup:

Ultimately, it boils down to one's own preferences. In MY collection, I've never observed any behaviors that would indicate any form of stress exhibited by the select few geckos that have the luxury of residing in aquaria vs tubs. Such geckos are the following:

These geckos hide when lights are on, they hide when lights are off. They are active right before lights come on, as well as active right before lights out. They come out of their hides, lights on or off, when I go into my herp room. They do similarly when I pull out my cricket tubs for feedings. They hunt and capture prey fine, their eyes apparently unaffected by such stressful bright lighting - again, this includes Golden-Eye, who has always lived in at least a 10 gallon tank since I purchased him in Oct 96 and who has always had some form of lighting on his habitat. That's 96...so he'll be 15 this Sept. and he's still the laid back, sweetheart of a gecko that loves to hunt down his crickets lights or no lights on.

I've watched them bask in the morning; I've watched them come out at noon walk a body length out of either warm or cool hide and just plop down, nice and relaxed in manner, close their eyes, and just rest right there in the open. I've made these observations back from fall '96 when I was just a lowly freshman in high school, on up to June 2009 to Oct 2009 when I was unemployed and had nothing better to do than apply for jobs and watch my reptiles.

If lighting on nocturnal species is so stressful and horrible, then answer me this? Why does Moody Gardens in Galveston, TX and Milwaukee County Zoo have their light cycles switched on their bat houses? Switched in that they have reversed the day and night cycles on these houses such that when visitors come to their facilities they get to observe these bats, and other nocturnal species on exhibit, in "night" lighting during daylight hours, but when these facilities are closed and it's dark outside said habitats have regular lighting on to maintain an established photoperiod. Milwaukee County Zoo has their nocturnal species on display in the Small Mammals Building and when I was there for the 2008 AZA Annual Conference all those nocturnal critters seemed completely fine according to zoo personnel when I asked about their light cycling.

Some additional distressed animal photos:

His 90 gallon tank has three 4ft fluorescent fixtures on it: the back has a T12GE Daylight bulb and a T12 plant & aquarium bulb, the middle fixture has 2 T-8 GE Daylight bulbs, and the front (seen in the photo) has a repti-sun 10.0 bulb. "Gex" is both day and night active. And during this time of year (because I use timers to extend his photoperiod) Gex calls right before lights on, right before lights off, and at around 10 and 10:45pm....like clockwork! Lighting's such a definite stress on these 2 gecko species.

 

[lillith]

Can everyone please stop overreacting defensively? It looks kinda silly.

To OP:
That is a GREAT red light picture, btw. Gecko says, "HI! GOT BUGS?"
You are indeed lucky to have found such a cool pickup.

Best of luck, glad you joined us!

 

[Wild West Reptile]

I don't know how to do the fancy quote thing Tokay, but I'll just sum this up and move on.

Basically I wrote that it stresses them out because I was typing in a hurry due to lack of time earlier. The original post was asking for help and I was only trying to give him some basic help. Maybe I should have stated that overhead lights aren't necessary....but in MY opinion an UTH is. I was only trying to offer 2.5 geckos a quick and easy setup that didn't include an overhead light. I have kept reptiles for many years as well and don't appreciate being called ignorant. The MAJORITY of people on this site will agree with me in that an overhead light is not needed and may...MAY...cause the geckos to hide or god forbid, stess. Yikes!! Not all of them, but alot of them in my observation don't care for them.

It's too bad that we have to be so careful about our opinions on this wonderful site, for fear that we will get persecuted or called ignorant or worse, by other members who don't agree with us. I thought this site was meant to help other people when they reach out for it...not for someone like yourself to pounce on one single comment in a paragraph of helpful knowledge.

I am glad that your setup works for you and that other members setups work for them as well. There's an infinite number of ways to properly care for a leopard gecko. But when all you contribute to a post is insulting someone else's recommendation......that is sad.

So anyways, I accept your apology as well. :/ (sarcasm) It's all good Tokay, I respect your knowledge and ability to care for your geckos and I'm sure we will meet again in some other post about trimming gecko nails or something! HaHa! Take care.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

P.S.
That is one sexy gecko! (the tokay)
Beautiful color! Why don't you send one my way and I'll forgot all about your comments! Ha Ha!! Just kidding. It's really nice though.

 

[TokayKeeper]

It's too bad that we have to be so careful about our opinions on this wonderful site, for fear that we will get persecuted or called ignorant or worse, by other members who don't agree with us. I thought this site was meant to help other people when they reach out for it...not for someone like yourself to pounce on one single comment in a paragraph of helpful knowledge.

It's not a need to be careful, though thoughtful is useful and appreciated by all as a whole. However, please do not take my initial reply in this thread as a direct attack upon yours or others opinion on the matter. Just as you replied hastily, my reply was quick and blunt. This site is indeed intended for the purposes you mention. Part of that purpose includes thinking outside the box. If anything the rolls here should be reversed for my means of habitat setup that is outside the box and to some degree unorthodox. I guess what I'm getting at without even drawing hints to it is that there are other ways to doing things and that putting on autopilot, telling everyone (not you, but others as a whole) that lights are stressful, that particulate substrates are plain evil, or whatever chicken little type the sky is falling if you do/use this response does not do a justice to the community when such responses are half truths where valid other means to getting things done are viable options as much as the generic play it safe options. And holy crap that was a long borderline run on sentence and I hate typing long replies on an ipad.

Thanks on the tokay...he's much more a jerk, more so than how I unfortunately come across on here at times. My intentions are good, but sometimes my wording is poorly executed.

 

[TokayKeeper]

Stupid iPad won't let me scroll the edit screen....but just to give ya more of a hard time ....

I don't have to trim gecko nails, their digging within the sand keeps them naturally trimmed.