Ovulating Female... ugggh!

[Kotsay1414]

Hey guys,

I have a female who has been ovulating for a few weeks now and is hovering between 45 and 47 grams. I am looking forward to breeding her, but she hasn't hit the magical 50 grams. Since she has started ovulating, her feeding habbits have dramatically slowed. So what I'm asking is would it be dumb to breed her and monitor her weight even more, or should I wait until she hits the 50 grams?

Thanks,
Kyle

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I feel your pain, Kyle. I have 3 gorgeous bold stripe females and two awesome patternless carrot-tails that started ovulating last January at about 45-48 grams. Guess what? It's now May, and they still weigh 45-48 grams! A couple have even lost weight. Aaarrrghhh!

It's a difficult situation. The experienced breeder in me says that if I bred them and allowed them to lay eggs, they would start eating again with a vengence. The caring gecko lover in me tells me they shouldn't be put through that kind of stress and ultimately jeopardize their health when they aren't big enough.

I wish I had a better response...

 

[Mel&Keith]

Some of our girls are total pigs while they're laying and actually gain weight during breeding season but others could care less about food so I guess there's no way to know how they'll respond if it's their first season. I would go by the overall condition of the gecko. If she's nice and fat and still just a small girl then she should be fine.

 

[ByRandom]

Mainly, I agree with Marcia...

Except, I've had females that are 2-3 years old that never hit 50 grams, no matter what, but they are great breeders and out-lay my 50-60 (and even my 80-100) gram females every time. I think that we as a community put so much emphasis on The gecko MUST be 50 grams before breeding! No exceptions! because, usually (except for Ryan and Val's geckos) weight is a good estimator of age. A 50 gram gecko, barring that it is Ryan and Val's geckos and/or a Tremper Giant, is usually in the 10-12 month age range.

I will give you a few examples...

Our Bell hybino female was over a year old, and 46-47 grams. I decided to breed her to my 75 gram male Bell hybino. 4 months and over 10 clutches later, she's still about 47 grams.

Our Bold Stripe female is 45 grams, 2 years old. She was a slow grower due to, I assume, being shipped way too early (she was 2 grams when she arrived). We made the decision to breed her, and she's about to pop! Her feeding response has picked up tremendously.

On the other hand, our 90 gram Bold Stripe x Bell female was bred to a 80 gram Jungle Bell Male last season, and she laid 13 clutches. With the same token, her sister (60 grams) only laid 4 clutches.

In summation, I believe that if they are over a year old, ovulating, and otherwise healthy -- it's okay to breed even if they are below 50 grams. I'm not talking about a 30 gram female. If she's hovering between 40-50 grams, go ahead. Also take in to account the history of the gecko. In the end, make an educated decision.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I agree to a point. When I started breeding leopard geckos about 12 years ago, adults were considered huge if they got to the 50 gram range. Back then, it was perfectly acceptable to breed a female when she got to be 38-40 grams, as long as she had a good fat reserve.

We know a lot more about leopard gecko husbandry and breeding now (thanks to forums like this!) and we are growing them bigger now. I can tell you from experience that the larger and older a female is at breeding/egging time, the the faster she will recover between clutches and at season end, the more clutches she will lay, and the longer she will live.

This still doesn't address the issue of smaller/younger females ovulating and not eating. It's really a catch-22... do we risk breeding them and potentially jeopardizing their health, or do we ride it out and hope they will eventually grow larger? I dunno...

 

[ByRandom]

I agree to a point. When I started breeding leopard geckos about 12 years ago, adults were considered huge if they got to the 50 gram range. Back then, it was perfectly acceptable to breed a female when she got to be 38-40 grams, as long as she had a good fat reserve.

We know a lot more about leopard gecko husbandry and breeding now (thanks to forums like this!) and we are growing them bigger now. I can tell you from experience that the larger and older a female is at breeding/egging time, the the faster she will recover between clutches and at season end, the more clutches she will lay, and the longer she will live.

This still doesn't address the issue of smaller/younger females ovulating and not eating. It's really a catch-22... do we risk breeding them and potentially jeopardizing their health, or do we ride it out and hope they will eventually grow larger? I dunno...

Also the reason that I added in my little disclaimer at the end... "Make an educated decision." Not just researching how Leopard Geckos are bred and requirements to keep them, but also make observations regarding your unique Leopard Gecko. No gecko is the same, and all usually have their own quirks.

There is also a difference between large and obese. I have had females that are, what I would consider, unhealthily large. They had immense belly rolls, were sluggish, and were terrors in the realm of egg production. Whenever I was fairly newer to the hobby, before I discovered the wonders of internet Gecko Forums, I had a female that was huge. She was sluggish in producing eggs (a clutch every 4-6 weeks) and, unless I found the eggs within a few hours after she laid them, would usually end up piercing them with her claws, which seems to be a trend with obese geckos. I have had the same confided to me about others' geckos.

Food for thought... Mm, fooooood.

 

[Kotsay1414]

Thank you for your feedback guys. I know exactly what Marcia is talking about 12 years ago with Geckos being smaller. I have two females from 10 1/2 years ago, one won't break 45 and the other just touches 50.

As for my female patternless in question, she is a year old and seems to have a smaller body/bone structure than my other patternless who is the same age. I'm going to let the decision sit for a little bit. I'll be sure to let you guys know what I do.

Thanks again, I appreciate it!

Kyle Johnson

 

[lil_katiedan]

One of my very first geckos was a Tremper Albino. She has always been more petite than some of my other geckos and has NEVER weighed more than 52g and that was a special occasion, lol. At first I was worried but now I accept that it's how she is and she's now one of my best breeders.

I think there are a couple of reasons geckos tend to be different sizes....

1) Geckos do indeed have different body types. Some look terribly obese at 60g and others look terribly skinny at 60g. It all depends on the gecko. If it looks healthy, fat, has a good appetite and checks out well with the vet, I say breed it as long as it's 42+ grams.

2) Another reason people may not think about, way back when people imported leos, no one cared about the different subspecies or the mixing of the the two. Most of the leos nowadays are "mutts." The body type of certain geckos are in direct relation to what they have in them. The montanus subspecies is huge compared to the others. I guess you can sorta look at it like dogs: A mutt with terrior and teacup poodle in it will of course be smaller than a mutt with Great Dane and Boxer.

In conclusion I think the decision it left up to the person with the gecko. The "rules" we have are more like guidelines that we can follow. Only you know exactly what your gecko is like, no one else can make the decision for you. Just from personal experience I do find that the smaller geckos are better breeders....

 

[eyelids]

I had a couple females I wanted to breed last year, but never got upto weight... So this year I decided to go ahead and put a male in with them... Each female was non-receptive, but started eating like pigs... I held off putting a male with either of them and each has put on 10+ grams in a month... Both of these females went over a year weighing 48-50 grams and never gaining prior to this...

 

[boutiquegecko]

Just adding not to forget to consider her fat storage. If she's got a nice fat tail but ends up not eating much, it's going to effect her a lot different than if she has an ok/thin tail and doesn't want to eat as much.

 

[Kotsay1414]

Thanks guys! I appreciate your input!

 

[supperl]

How to see if shes ovulating or not?

 

[acpart]

Here's a possible compromise for a lower weight gecko that's ovulating and not eating much. I have done it with 1 gecko in that category each year: I introduced the female in question to a male at the end of the breeding season for just 1 or 2 overnights (I generally keep my males and females together between Jan. and Oct.) and then separated them and didn't re-introduce. The females all started eating again and gaining some weight and only laid about 3 clutches before they stopped ovulating. They did have the stress of some egg laying but not too much and they all started eating and gaining again.

Aliza