Perlite/Superhatch/Hatchrite Comparison

[gators0204]

These clutches are from the same female, a high yellow leopard gecko.

First pic is in the perlite and is the first clutch. Second pic is in superhatch and is the second clutch laid approximatley 2 weeks later. Third pic is hatchrite and the eggs were laid about 17 days later after the second clutch. Fourth pic is a side by side of the perlite and superhatch. As you can see the eggs in the super hatch are almost twice the size as the first clutch which is in the perlite, even though they have been incubating for a less time. The eggs in the hatchrite are a bit larger than the perlite but not quite as large as the eggs in the superhatch. I used Albey's method for the perlite.

 

[OhioGecko]

Great expiriment you have going on there.

I think you will need to put at least 10 sets of eggs in each substrate to get a more conclusive result. Not saying the results will not be the same but it would make the data hold up saying 20 eggs in superhatch hatched out an average of .5g over hatchright and 1g heavier than perlite.

 

[Nigel4less]

Correction, that is actually Vermiculite you are using for the first clutch. And just a word of advice HatchRite is just pre-moistened perlite.

 

[SleepyDee]

One thing I found looking at the pics is how different things are marketed under different names ~ in the UK the first pic of what you call perlite is vermiculite here and the white medium (in the third pic) that you've marked as hatchrite looks very much like our perlite ~ my favourite incubating medium

Looks like any polls I did here about what incubating mediums used is now wrong :main_huh:

 

[GeckoGathering]

Testing

Great expiriment you have going on there.

I think you will need to put at least 10 sets of eggs in each substrate to get a more conclusive result. Not saying the results will not be the same but it would make the data hold up saying 20 eggs in superhatch hatched out an average of .5g over hatchright and 1g heavier than perlite.

I feel all testing has much merit
but I fail to see what it will prove?
Bigger Eggs?
I had one egg in Perlite grow to 13 grams.
And the clutchmate egg in the same hatch box weighed 7 grams.
Both eggs started near the same size.
Hatchings were not much different as most of the large one
was added liquid.............................
I'm sure not trying to discourage testing, cause I'm doing
it all the time on better methods and better prey foods.
I'm just a little in the dark. Good Luck. Take Care. HJ

 

[OhioGecko]

I feel all testing has much merit
but I fail to see what it will prove?
Bigger Eggs?
I had one egg in Perlite grow to 13 grams.
And the clutchmate egg in the same hatch box weighed 7 grams.
Both eggs started near the same size.
Hatchings were not much different as most of the large one
was added liquid.............................
I'm sure not trying to discourage testing, cause I'm doing
it all the time on better methods and better prey foods.
I'm just a little in the dark. Good Luck. Take Care. HJ

I don't think you read my post correctly. I didn't say go by bigger eggs, but with bigger hatchlings. If your hatchlings will average .5 grams heavier when hatched it would merit using a different substrate, right?

Right now I'm using perlite and my average hatchling is 3.15 grams for 52 hatchlings. If incubating on superhatch would raise my birth weights to 3.65 grams you can be sure I would switch to it. :main_yes:

 

[gators0204]

Correction, that is actually Vermiculite you are using for the first clutch. And just a word of advice HatchRite is just pre-moistened perlite.

Your absolutley right, I did post this in the wee hours of the morning. I wantd a vermiculite, perlite, superhatch comparision. I know what hatchrite is:main_thumbsup:

 

[gators0204]

I don't think you read my post correctly. I didn't say go by bigger eggs, but with bigger hatchlings. If your hatchlings will average .5 grams heavier when hatched it would merit using a different substrate, right?

Right now I'm using perlite and my average hatchling is 3.15 grams for 52 hatchlings. If incubating on superhatch would raise my birth weights to 3.65 grams you can be sure I would switch to it. :main_yes:

Thats excactly what im trying to prove, but your right I should use more eggs even though i agree that it would all be the same. But I wanted to use the same female so the eggs would be similar.

 

[Gregg M]

Egg size will vary no matter what incubation substrate you use... Bigger eggs does not mean bigger hatchlings either... In my opinion, there is no need to for this test as it will yeild nothing at all...

 

[OhioGecko]

Thats excactly what im trying to prove, but your right I should use more eggs even though i agree that it would all be the same. But I wanted to use the same female so the eggs would be similar.

I hope you do some more eggs and get hatchling weights. I'm sure there would be a lot of breeders interested in the results. :main_thumbsup:

 

[gators0204]

Egg size will vary no matter what incubation substrate you use... Bigger eggs does not mean bigger hatchlings either... In my opinion, there is no need to for this test as it will yeild nothing at all...

Have you done it before and got conclusive results?

When the eggs were first put into the incubator I just wanted to use different substrates because I can, aside from superhatch evrything else I can get free or dirt cheap. When the eggs started to plump up bigger in the superhatch it got me curious to see if it would yield bigger hatchlings. I have also read many post on how superhatch has "saved" eggs that were dented or not doing so well in hatchrite/perlite/vermiculte. Just wanted to see how good superhatch is for myself really, and thought I would share.

So far, I say super hatch is better. Easier, more cost effective. If the test is a bust, oh well, cost me nothing extra.

 

[gators0204]

I hope you do some more eggs and get hatchling weights. I'm sure there would be a lot of breeders interested in the results. :main_thumbsup:

I'll definatley take the hatchlings weights. I wish I could get more but I sold most of my adults to make room for my gargoyles and cresteds. I only have 2 egg producing females right now, all the others are still to young.

 

[Gregg M]

Have you done it before and got conclusive results?

Actually yes, I have used every incubation substrate known in the hobby... There is no difference in hatchling sizes... Like I said, egg size makes no difference in hatchling size... Infact, I have seen smaller than normal neonates hatch from larger than normal eggs...

Hatchling size depends more so on genetics, not the substrate they are incubated in...

 

[spykerherps]

Genetics and health / nutrition of the female when ovulating and gravid.

 

[snowgyre]

I also believe that incubation medium would have little to no effect on hatchling size. Once an egg is laid, that embryo is developing in what is essentially a closed system. Growth is directly affected to the amount of nutrition in the yolk, and therefore by the health of the mother prior to laying. The only thing the incubation medium would have an effect on is water absorption, which is probably what is causing the change in egg mass you're seeing here.

 

[OhioGecko]

I also believe that egg size doesn't determine the size of the gecko. But I have hatched 1-2 gram geckos from eggs that have dented. I believe if those eggs have not been dented then they would have hatched out with higher weights. This is a direct result of the incubation medium.

So if we have a perfect incubation medium what will the average birth size, not egg size, be of a leopard gecko. Sure different parents will produce different size hatchlings but if the incubation medium doesn't affect the birth size then why do my eggs that dent hatch out smaller geckos than the eggs that don't? And with that being said how do we know that our undented eggs hatching at 2.8 grams would not of hatched out a 3.2 gram baby if the egg was optimally hydrated?

 

[Gregg M]

I also believe that egg size doesn't determine the size of the gecko. But I have hatched 1-2 gram geckos from eggs that have dented. I believe if those eggs have not been dented then they would have hatched out with higher weights. This is a direct result of the incubation medium.

No, that is the direct result of human error... Any incubation medium will fail if not used properly...

 

[OhioGecko]

No, that is the direct result of human error... Any incubation medium will fail if not used properly...

I agreee with the human error but is there a medium that can help minimize human error?

-So no one medium is better than another?
-Will one medium hold moisture better than another?
-Will a medium with more acidity help keep eggs from molding?
-Why do the eggs swell so big in other substrates, I'm assuming it is due to water intake. If this is true does the embryo asorb any of the water?

Gregg you have been doing this for a long time so I respect your answers but I think the incubation period is important to the developement of the embryo including it's initial size. I don't think it will change the adult size of the gecko, just the hatch size.

 

[crotaphytidae]

Just a thought but maybe the neonates that hatch from dented eggs are smaller due to the constricted area of the egg. Any animal that tries to grow in a smaller than optimal environment is stunted as far as growth but if an animal is placed in a big wide open area with plenty of room that doesn't mean it will grow to fill that larger area. If the egg was not dented they might hatch larger than your stated weights but an even larger egg would not guarantee that the embryo inside will hatch big, that (as has been stated) is purely genetic.

 

[OhioGecko]

Just a thought but maybe the neonates that hatch from dented eggs are smaller due to the constricted area of the egg. Any animal that tries to grow in a smaller than optimal environment is stunted as far as growth but if an animal is placed in a big wide open area with plenty of room that doesn't mean it will grow to fill that larger area. If the egg was not dented they might hatch larger than your stated weights but an even larger egg would not guarantee that the embryo inside will hatch big, that (as has been stated) is purely genetic.

Most the time the dented eggs yolks are a thicker yolk and doesn't get completely absorbed or not absorbed at all by the hatchling. This is due to the substrate being too dry.

This can be controlled by human intervention but how can you tell if Perlite is damp or dry after it has been sitting in an incubator for 30 days? If a substrate is able to hold the moisture longer than another than that is an aid to having healthier hatchlings.