Persistent dehydration, cloudy eyes, and TWO abscesses? What the heck is going on?

[KDReptiles]

This little gecko has been through so much, and it just seems to be getting worse for him! It's a long story, but I will shorten it up as well as I can.

I rescued a gecko from quite awful conditions on 11/27/11. His previous owner told me that his eyes had gotten cloudy twice in the past, but apparently cleared up on their own. He was skinny and dehydrated, and I noticed a small, bone-hard bump on the left side of his nose.

I took him to the veterinary teaching hospital at WSU soon after I got him, where they poked at the bump and decided it was a benign abnormality that would probably be there for good. Fecal exam turned up parasite-free. They said he definitely needed groceries but would probably be fine.
He continued to have a healthy appetite and drank plenty of water.

Then, overnight, his right eye became completely opaque and he refused to open it. Back to the vet, where they said it was possibly shed from his eyelid that had come off the wrong way and got stuck in his eye, but also might be infection. So they extracted the gunk and sent me home with 5 days of antibiotic goo to be placed under his eyelids. Vet re-checked him and said his eyes are fine now, but mentioned the possibility of it happening again since it seems to be a recurring issue already, given his past. In which case she said we'd have to just keep taking the gunk out of his eyes manually.

He was fine after that for quite some time, but then everything seemed to go downhill all at once. Both of his eyes had gotten cloudy, he stopped eating, lost a little weight and developed an abscess on the left side of his head. Vet said he had also been dehydrated. She kept him for two weeks after the removal to tend to the wound as well as give antibiotic and fluid injections. She said the treatment plan will be to come back twice a week for more antibiotics and fluids. It's been healing very well.

Now, almost exactly a month later, he's visibly dehydrated again (despite having a 6qt tub for a humid hide and an appropriate sized water dish) the RIGHT side of his head is abscessed, and, of course, his eyes are cloudy. This is SERIOUSLY frustrating! Has anyone ever heard of recurring issues like this?

The day I brought him home:

Getting better:

First abscess:

5 days post-op:

Healing

Newest abscess looks like it spread to the mouth, or maybe it started at the mouth?

Cloudy eyes were hard to photograph

 

[katie_]

How are they treating the abscesses?
Some infections can become resistant.

 

[KDReptiles]

How are they treating the abscesses?
Some infections can become resistant.

All I know is that They took out the abscess, kept it open for cleaning any trapped bacteria out, and gave injection antibiotics I think twice a week. I can't find my invoice so I can't remember what kind of antibiotics they were using. I know it's not Baytril.

 

[katie_]

He may need a longer course of abs' but I'm not a doctor.
You could consider a second opinion.

 

[geckoguru929]

Do you dust her insects with a product containing Vitamin A acetate?

 

[KDReptiles]

Thanks, and Katie, you may be right. More antibiotics might have done it, the vet cut the treatment short because he was healing so well, so he must not have gotten enough of the antibiotic. He's being brought in today and I will talk to them about it.

Do you dust her insects with a product containing Vitamin A acetate?

No, I don't dust their food often, but when I do I use calcium w/d3 (currently zoomed brand).

 

[geckoguru929]

Thanks, and Katie, you may be right. More antibiotics might have done it, the vet cut the treatment short because he was healing so well, so he must not have gotten enough of the antibiotic. He's being brought in today and I will talk to them about it.


No, I don't dust their food often, but when I do I use calcium w/d3 (currently zoomed brand).

That may be why. Geckos need vitamin/mineral supplement 1 x a week. Vitamin A deficiency can cause ocular problems, mouth lesions, abscess and many more.

 

[KDReptiles]

I was reading a little more into it and that absolutely sounds like what is going on. Looks like feeding the insects well doesn't cut it. What brand supplement would you recommend that has vit. A?

But wait, aren't superworms particularly high in vit. a? That's what I was feeding him almost exclusively when he got his first abscess, as I ordered 2,000 of them and needed to get rid of them quickly.

 

[mango+cola]

They need a multivitamin supplement. I use Nekton Rep which was suggested by my vet. My gecko had cloudy eyes last summer because she was not eating and therefore not getting her vitamins, it took two rounds of meds from the vet, but she eventually got better. Now when our gecko does not eat we liquidize the vitamins and she drinks them.

 

[geckoguru929]

I was reading a little more into it and that absolutely sounds like what is going on. Looks like feeding the insects well doesn't cut it. What brand supplement would you recommend that has vit. A?

But wait, aren't superworms particularly high in vit. a? That's what I was feeding him almost exclusively when he got his first abscess, as I ordered 2,000 of them and needed to get rid of them quickly.

Superworms are not a good source of Vitamin A. Superworms and mealworms are a good source of fat. When these are fed exclusively, too much fat can interfere with vitamin absorption. Most of the geckos who develop nutritional deficiencies are fed these items. Most people need to rely on heavier supplementation in order to make up for it. Heavy supplementing can lead to detrimental internal consequences as the years go by.

The best approach is a balanced diet and variety. Every insect has it's ups and downs. There is no perfect insect. At least not that we have access to. The only balanced feeder is phoenix worms. No one insect should be fed as a whole diet. One insect is a poor source of one vitamin whereas the other insect is rich in. Vary- Phoenix worms, crickets, roaches, mealworms, silkworms, butterworms, hornworms, locust. The more variety the happier and healthier your gecko will be. You are using Zoo Med so it will be best to use Reptivite.

 

[grboxa]

guru great info. and as for supplements, alot of members on here use Repashy Calcium Plus including me, its a great product imo. You can dust daily with it and it has everything your gecko needs.

 

[KDReptiles]

Thanks a ton for the info.

Back to the vet for Calcifer, and got some bad news... The vet said this new abscess is inside his mouth, requiring anesthesia to undergo removal surgery.

After e-mailing her, asking if this could continue to be a recurring issue, and if it could be a vit. A problem, she replied:
"Unfortunately, yes, it is a very good possibility that he will continue to have these problems since it’s come back again and since it’s on the opposite side, it probably isn’t the same abcess so it is likely that there is an underlying cause making his immune system less able to fight off infection which would normally not be a problem. Vitamin A deficiency is a possibility, but I really don’t see it that often in geckos…"

If there is a good chance these problems won't go away even with treatment, this forces me to consider his quality of life, and what it will be like for him to undergo many more weeks of treatment every time this happens, and at this rate, it's every month after the last one heals (whether it be eye gunk or abscess).

 

[geckoguru929]

Thanks a ton for the info.

Back to the vet for Calcifer, and got some bad news... The vet said this new abscess is inside his mouth, requiring anesthesia to undergo removal surgery.

After e-mailing her, asking if this could continue to be a recurring issue, and if it could be a vit. A problem, she replied:
"Unfortunately, yes, it is a very good possibility that he will continue to have these problems since it’s come back again and since it’s on the opposite side, it probably isn’t the same abcess so it is likely that there is an underlying cause making his immune system less able to fight off infection which would normally not be a problem. Vitamin A deficiency is a possibility, but I really don’t see it that often in geckos…"

If there is a good chance these problems won't go away even with treatment, this forces me to consider his quality of life, and what it will be like for him to undergo many more weeks of treatment every time this happens, and at this rate, it's every month after the last one heals (whether it be eye gunk or abscess).

It's very common in leopard geckos. Maybe she has failed to diagnose it in other geckos. As you can see you had to mention it to her. I think with the proper diet and supplementation he will improve. Buy the supplement and begin dusting right away. Hope everything goes well.

 

[geckoguru929]

guru great info. and as for supplements, alot of members on here use Repashy Calcium Plus including me, its a great product imo. You can dust daily with it and it has everything your gecko needs.

Thanks, but I believe it's unnecessary and dangerous to use these supplements on a regular basis.

 

[KDReptiles]

Strange... This isn't just any reptile vet, this is the kind of vet people travel out of state to see, but I guess anyone can make mistakes. Calcifer is staying there tonight and the vet will be taking another look at him tomorrow, so I can start the vitamin supplements soon.

 

[sausage]

poor little sod has been through the wars. hope he pulls through fine an well, he look s like a fighter.

 

[grboxa]

guru you sound like you know what you are talking about. i would love to hear why you think its dangerous to dust with repashy calcium plus daily?. im sure others would like to know aswell, alot of members use that product on this forum. i must admitt though when i switched for the repashy supplement i noticed a huge change in my geckos, for the good. I have heard though from someone that they think the protein level is supposedly to high for a daily dust. If im not mistaken the newer version even has a higher protein level?.

To the OP : good luck with your gecko, everything pulls through good:main_thumbsup:

 

[katie_]

guru you sound like you know what you are talking about. i would love to hear why you think its dangerous to dust with repashy calcium plus daily?. im sure others would like to know aswell, alot of members use that product on this forum. i must admitt though when i switched for the repashy supplement i noticed a huge change in my geckos, for the good. I have heard though from someone that they think the protein level is supposedly to high for a daily dust. If im not mistaken the newer version even has a higher protein level?.

To the OP : good luck with your gecko, everything pulls through good:main_thumbsup:

Geckos and other reptiles can overdose on some vitamins.
I also agree vitamins shouldnt be dusted daily, just calcium.

 

[grboxa]

Geckos and other reptiles can overdose on some vitamins.
I also agree vitamins shouldnt be dusted daily, just calcium.

oh I know geckos can OD on certain vitamins. I dont want to go off topic, but I think the feeders play a big part as well in determining weather or not it is safe to dust daily with repashy. For eg. crickets vs superworms. Crickets hold much more powder when coated then supers.

 

[Robyn@SYR]

Interesting thread. Best of luck.