Petco

[Stimpy]

first take answers form yahoo answers and similar sites with a gran of salt.. you dont know the person answering or how much knowledge they have...

post a picture of the leo so we can tell you if its super important for him to be eating right away. going a couple weeks with out eating is no problem for MOST leos.

Give the medicine as describe by they vet.

Alright gave him the meds... all went well

heres a pic of him.

 

[im faster]

How long has it been since he has eaten?

and how do you feed him? meal worms in a dish? if so just make sure you keep fresh worms in there at all times.. keep track of how many are in there.. and how much he eats

 

[Stimpy]

How long has it been since he has eaten?

and how do you feed him? meal worms in a dish? if so just make sure you keep fresh worms in there at all times.. keep track of how many are in there.. and how much he eats

bout 5 days now, i feed him from tongs, he loves to come up and eat out of them, or at least he did. And i dont keep the mealworms in a bowl... my brother used to have a bunch of leo's and he told me they would do fine with handfeeding. Should i have some in a dish?

 

[im faster]

have some in a dish in case he decide to eat sometime your not there to feed him.. bug also keep trying to hand feed him a few time a day

 

[Stimpy]

have some in a dish in case he decide to eat sometime your not there to feed him.. bug also keep trying to hand feed him a few time a day

Will do

 

[SDCowboy]

bout 5 days now, i feed him from tongs, he loves to come up and eat out of them, or at least he did. And i dont keep the mealworms in a bowl... my brother used to have a bunch of leo's and he told me they would do fine with handfeeding. Should i have some in a dish?

I'm in the same boat (though I always keep food in a dish also). Hasn't eaten in 5 days. Went from pounding down food that I would had feed her (with tweezers or laying them in front of her) then, BOOM, one day she just doesn't even want to look at food or won't even acknowledge that it's in front of her nose.

 

[Tailless]

The vet helped alot, i told him about all the stuff that im doing and he confirmed that i was doing it right. He did tell me that my temps may be a bit on the low side but they will do fine. He did say for the sick gecko that i would be better off making the temps 90 on the hot side and 85 on the cold side so i can get his metabolism boosted. Today i start force feeding and baytril .05 daily.

Just wondering.... What was the vet's diagnosis? Is the Baytril just in case the gecko has an infection, or was the vet relatively sure that this is the problem?

 

[Stimpy]

Just wondering.... What was the vet's diagnosis? Is the Baytril just in case the gecko has an infection, or was the vet relatively sure that this is the problem?

He didnt really make that clear to me. I asked so is he sick? and he replied. Im more than sure he is on the borderline of getting sick. I dont think a fecal is necesary but ill give you some baytril to fight whatevers coming.

 

[Stimpy]

I'm in the same boat (though I always keep food in a dish also). Hasn't eaten in 5 days. Went from pounding down food that I would had feed her (with tweezers or laying them in front of her) then, BOOM, one day she just doesn't even want to look at food or won't even acknowledge that it's in front of her nose.

Thats exactly how mine is, you said you got yours from petco too? Wierd... im sure with the medicine though he'll be good as new.

 

[SDCowboy]

Thats exactly how mine is, you said you got yours from petco too? Wierd... im sure with the medicine though he'll be good as new.

Yep got mine from petco also. She was putting away food like a vacuum for about two weeks then for no reason stopped eating (and her poop got runny too). She's acting completely normal and drinks like she should. She just won't even touch food and sometimes will even turn her heard away from it. Just started immediately the day she started to shed. If this leo doesn't work out, I think I'm done with major chain leos. I'll stick with breeders or there's a small one here that just keeps one leo at a time.

 

[Tailless]

He didnt really make that clear to me. I asked so is he sick? and he replied. Im more than sure he is on the borderline of getting sick. I dont think a fecal is necesary but ill give you some baytril to fight whatevers coming.

I guess that makes sense. I was just curious. From my web research, it seems that Baytril is used to fight bacterial infections. If the problem is parasites, you might need different meds. I would follow the vet's advice, but if your guy doesn't get better, I would get a fecal to check for parasites.

I like this website:

http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html

***But... just as the author of the website says, I *would not* encourage you (or anyone else) to start self-treating geckos without the guidance of a vet. That's a very dangerous path...

 

[Stimpy]

I guess that makes sense. I was just curious. From my web research, it seems that Baytril is used to fight bacterial infections. If the problem is parasites, you might need different meds. I would follow the vet's advice, but if your guy doesn't get better, I would get a fecal to check for parasites.

I like this website:

http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html

***But... just as the author of the website says, I *would not* encourage you (or anyone else) to start self-treating geckos without the guidance of a vet. That's a very dangerous path...

Ive heard that you cant overdose on panacur, if it is parasites is it a possobility that i could use that? (NOT SAYING ITS THE EASY/CHEAP WAY OUT AND I WONT TAKE HIM TO A VET!!!!!!!) Just wondering if that would be something to look into also

 

[Tailless]

Ive heard that you cant overdose on panacur, if it is parasites is it a possobility that i could use that? (NOT SAYING ITS THE EASY/CHEAP WAY OUT AND I WONT TAKE HIM TO A VET!!!!!!!) Just wondering if that would be something to look into also

That's what some people say. I think I have read studies where they tried to overdose rats on Panacur (to see if they would die) and it took 100s of times the recommended dose to kill the rats. To me, that doesn't indicate that you *can't* overdose on Panacur--but only that it is a relatively safe drug (also, the studies were done with rats, not lizards, so it isn't clear that it would have the same effect on another species). My personal belief is that there's likely no such thing as a 100% safe drug.

Also, keep in mind that the Panacur sold over the counter (or over the internet) usually comes in a huge tube for treating horses! That means that you would have to be very careful to calculate dosage yourself for a tiny gecko (which would require, among other things, getting an accurate weight of your lizard).

My suggestion is that you give it a try with the meds that the vet prescribed first. (Did he mention how long it would take before you should see improvement?) If you do not see improvement, then it's time to call the vet.

Alternately, you could call the vet now and ask if he thinks that treating with Panacur would be a good preemptive measure. He might give you some advice over the phone without the hassle and/or expense of dragging your gecko in for another appointment (since you were just there)!

 

[M_surinamensis]

I like this website:

http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html

Melissa Kaplan should be avoided.

That particular page is just a list of information taken from books written by Mader and Frye, but Kaplan herself is poisonous. She's a hardcore animal rights activist, masquerading from time to time as a pet advocate. She has flagrantly stated that she believes animals, specifically reptiles, should never be kept in captivity. She has no herpetology related credentials, she has minimal personal experience (mostly a list of iguanas she has abused) and her website is riddled with misinformation, inaccuracies and animal rights propaganda. Any individual page, any individual piece of information taken from her website stands equal chances of being situationally accurate or egregiously wrong (and dangerous to any animal subjected to it).

She's the enemy of pet owners, of animal lovers, of herpetoculturalists and herpetologists alike. She aligns herself with organizations which want to ban all medical testing, make eating meat illegal, close zoos, outlaw insulin production and leather clothing and which want to end pet ownership.

Her website should not be opened. Her advice should not be sought. Her information should not be treated as credible unless externally verified by an unbiased source.

In short, Melissa Kaplan is one of the worst public figures associated with pet ownership alive today and it's best not to post links to her website.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Over-use of any medication causes animals to build a tolerance that in turn, decreases or diminishes the effectiveness of the drug. It should be used only as directed and mixed specifically for reptiles. Ordering prescription medication over the internet can be risky- has it been kept at safe temperatures during the shipping process? Will it sit in a hot mailbox all day? What is the expiration date? These things affect drug quality. What if something goes wrong- do you have a qualified herp vet to properly advise you?

Cutting corners to save money can cost more in the long run.

 

[Stimpy]

Over-use of any medication causes animals to build a tolerance that in turn, decreases or diminishes the effectiveness of the drug. It should be used only as directed and mixed specifically for reptiles. Ordering prescription medication over the internet can be risky- has it been kept at safe temperatures during the shipping process? Will it sit in a hot mailbox all day? What is the expiration date? These things affect drug quality. What if something goes wrong- do you have a qualified herp vet to properly advise you?

Cutting corners to save money can cost more in the long run.

As i stated before (i even put it in bold) i was just wondering if that was a possobility to turn too before another vet visit. Maybe try that because i have bacterial medicine not parasite medicine , im not looking for a short cut with panacur. Just wondering if that could be a pre med just incase.

 

[Tailless]

ad hominem?

Melissa Kaplan should be avoided.

That particular page is just a list of information taken from books written by Mader and Frye, but Kaplan herself is poisonous. She's a hardcore animal rights activist, masquerading from time to time as a pet advocate. She has flagrantly stated that she believes animals, specifically reptiles, should never be kept in captivity. She has no herpetology related credentials, she has minimal personal experience (mostly a list of iguanas she has abused) and her website is riddled with misinformation, inaccuracies and animal rights propaganda. Any individual page, any individual piece of information taken from her website stands equal chances of being situationally accurate or egregiously wrong (and dangerous to any animal subjected to it).

She's the enemy of pet owners, of animal lovers, of herpetoculturalists and herpetologists alike. She aligns herself with organizations which want to ban all medical testing, make eating meat illegal, close zoos, outlaw insulin production and leather clothing and which want to end pet ownership.

Her website should not be opened. Her advice should not be sought. Her information should not be treated as credible unless externally verified by an unbiased source.

In short, Melissa Kaplan is one of the worst public figures associated with pet ownership alive today and it's best not to post links to her website.

Oh boy... here we go again...

I stand by my recommendation of this page as a good summary of herp meds. I think that Kaplan's site also has some decent general information on herps (I'm sure there are some errors, but that's why no careful owner would trust one source for all of his information).

That said, I was not aware of all of the controversy surrounding her. I have browsed the site and I haven't seen any of the extreme propaganda of which you speak. It is entirely possible that this woman leads a double life as a radical animal liberation advocate, but I don't get that from her website alone.

Even if all you say is true (some pretty extreme claims that would require hard evidence), I still don't think that we need to be afraid of reading someone's website. Some of you might be startled to hear that I have assigned readings from such controversial figures as Marx and Peter Singer in classes I have taught. This doesn't mean that I *endorse* their positions, but they have been influential. If we think that these people are wrong, we should be able to discuss the reasons why. The answer to propaganda is not censorship.

I think that an intelligent person should be able to read what others have to say and make up his own mind.

That said, I expect that my position on pet ownership is more "extreme" than M_surinamensis'. I do think that people jump into pet ownership (just like they jump into having kids--but that's another very controversial converstaion) without really reflecting on all of the costs. I certainly am *not* against people owning pets (or having kids) but I do think that people should think about such things much more seriously than they do. My evidence that people are unreflective is anecdotal (stories from friends, relatives, and students of mine), but I have heard of too many cases where people got pets because they thought it would be "fun" or "cool" only to end up abandoning or euthanaizing the animal when it became inconvenient.

 

[Tailless]

As i stated before (i even put it in bold) i was just wondering if that was a possobility to turn too before another vet visit. Maybe try that because i have bacterial medicine not parasite medicine , im not looking for a short cut with panacur. Just wondering if that could be a pre med just incase.

Like I said, I would call the vet and ask him. Perhaps he will advise you over the phone.

 

[Stimpy]

Like I said, I would call the vet and ask him. Perhaps he will advise you over the phone.

Will do, Thanks for understanding that im not turning to this as a cure, but more as a precaution.

 

[M_surinamensis]

I think that Kaplan's site also has some decent general information on herps

Not really. The dangerous mistakes and misinformation found on many of the species specific and general care pages tend to outweigh the few things included in there which are sometimes accurate. Anyone trying to follow her care guides and information will kill animals as a direct consequence of those areas where it is incorrect.

Which tends to feed into her agenda. First she makes frequent mention of how it is not possible to keep reptiles healthy in captivity. She has entire pages devoted to that exact topic, how all reptiles are unsuited to captivity and will suffer when kept. She peppers the specific care pages with frequent but less overt messages along the same lines. Secondly, she provides "information" which will, if followed, result in unhealthy and dead animals. Users of her site unintentionally fulfill her anti-pet predictions by following her instructions.

Which doesn't even touch on the inaccuracies, misinformation and incorrect items presented as factual which are not going to have as direct an impact. Nomenclature, maximum sizes, diets, information on sexing and behavior... the entire website is basically garbage.

That said, I was not aware of all of the controversy surrounding her. I have browsed the site and I haven't seen any of the extreme propaganda of which you speak. It is entirely possible that this woman leads a double life as a radical animal liberation advocate, but I don't get that from her website alone.

Check the sections on "The Pet Trade" and "Animal Rights" and then compare these to credible external sources, like CITES data. She lies, constantly and freely, to promote her radical views on animals in captivity.

Even if all you say is true (some pretty extreme claims that would require hard evidence)

"I'd like to see a total ban, but I know that is unlikely." - Kaplan, in an interview with the Washington Post in 2003, as part of an article about "exotic species" (like corn snakes and leopard geckos) in captivity.

And from the same article, discussing the monkeypox outbreak that occurred among captive rodents, "Outbreaks like monkeypox tend to be too limited to spur broad action on the exotics trade. Unfortunately, I think the monkeypox scare is just going to be a brief blip on the screen." She wanted more people to get sick, in order to spur legislative backlash.

She's been a vocal supporter of various initiatives and movements which had shared backing from PETA and the HSUS, known and self acknowledged animal rights organizations. "Petno" the California Care Sheet push which was soundly opposed by organizations like USARK and many local pet related business owners and a few of the reworded care laws that define pet owners as "Animal Guardians" and have been immediately turned around by the AR groups to claim that animal ownership is illegal slavery.

If one goes through the assorted quotes, linked and reposted articles and content posted on her site that she did not author (and some of that which she claims to have authored is... questionable, since she has never kept many of the species she has care sheets for, many of which are suspiciously similar to the bare bones stuff deVosJolie was "authoring" for decades) there are also an astounding preponderance of self identified AR activists. Mostly anti-pet trade and anti-zoo activists.

I still don't think that we need to be afraid of reading someone's website. Some of you might be startled to hear that I have assigned readings from such controversial figures as Marx and Peter Singer in classes I have taught. This doesn't mean that I *endorse* their positions, but they have been influential. If we think that these people are wrong, we should be able to discuss the reasons why. The answer to propaganda is not censorship.

In this instance, you expressly endorsed her website.

I have no fear of educated and knowledgeable individuals reading her website, because they can identify the traps, the lies and the misinformation for what it is and summarily reject it.

I do have a fear of naive individuals, who may not have as finely honed an ability to detect bullshit when reading about animal related topics being told to use her site as a resource though.

I think that an intelligent person should be able to read what others have to say and make up his own mind.

Do you also think that only intelligent people will find her site or follow your link? What about the animals owned by people who aren't aware enough to look for other sources and critically work through the contradictions? The animals that have died from following her "care information" where do they fit in... screw 'em, because their owner didn't have an existing knowledge of the subject?

There's a lot of rumbling from the educational community these days suggesting that advances in information technology may be eroding the ability of some individuals to think critically. The simple answer is always a google search away, so some segments of the population no longer develop or practice the ability to understand information contextually. They know the answer, but not what the answer means. A site like Kaplans, being what it is and, unfortunately still being boosted in search engines and regarded by some misguided individuals as credible, becomes an enormous danger under those circumstances.

So... censored? I'm not writing letters to her host demanding it be taken down, so not exactly censored. Definitely not something that should ever be endorsed though, or presented as a link, with instructions to go there for information. In the same respect that I will happily tell people that her iguana book (for dummies, by a dumbass) should never be purchased, but I would not go so far as to burn it.

Although I did redact a copy based on accuracy at the behest of its owner, prior to it being made the gag prize in a herp society auction once. It took three Marks-A-Lot and a good laugh was had by all, because Kaplan really is an individual who deserves to be discredited and a little ridicule is probably healthier than some of the alternatives.

It would be a bit different if she were not presenting all this as being factual information. If she simply and directly wrote articles about her philosophical beliefs that pet ownership was immoral, then they could be read for what they are and accepted or disregarded as the reader saw fit. What she claims to be (and is not) is an informational authority, which places different demands on the entire enterprise and makes her blatantly incorrect statements far more severe a transgression.

Marx and Singer may be controversial and that's fine, because of the fields they work in. Math textbooks are held to an entirely different standard. Animal care should be treated more like the latter than the former.

That said, I expect that my position on pet ownership is more "extreme" than M_surinamensis'.

Probably not. Cynicism and experience can lead to much more radical positions than any thought exercise ever devised. There's a lot of time and a lot of frustration behind my attitude when it comes to education and responsible pet ownership. "I think people should do better." doesn't even come close to the sorts of absolutes I usually endorse.

I do think that people jump into pet ownership (just like they jump into having kids--but that's another very controversial converstaion) without really reflecting on all of the costs. I certainly am *not* against people owning pets (or having kids) but I do think that people should think about such things much more seriously than they do. My evidence that people are unreflective is anecdotal (stories from friends, relatives, and students of mine), but I have heard of too many cases where people got pets because they thought it would be "fun" or "cool" only to end up abandoning or euthanaizing the animal when it became inconvenient.

How does a website full of bad care information fix that exactly? That last quoted section is really an argument against Kaplan and for credible sources who aren't insidiously pushing an AR agenda using misinformation and lies.

Neophyte pet owners need good information, verified and recognized, tested through scientific scrutiny and daily application by knowledgeable and experienced herpers. Not Kaplan.