Petco

[Tailless]

Not really. The dangerous mistakes and misinformation found on many of the species specific and general care pages tend to outweigh the few things included in there which are sometimes accurate. Anyone trying to follow her care guides and information will kill animals as a direct consequence of those areas where it is incorrect.

Which tends to feed into her agenda. First she makes frequent mention of how it is not possible to keep reptiles healthy in captivity. She has entire pages devoted to that exact topic, how all reptiles are unsuited to captivity and will suffer when kept. She peppers the specific care pages with frequent but less overt messages along the same lines. Secondly, she provides "information" which will, if followed, result in unhealthy and dead animals. Users of her site unintentionally fulfill her anti-pet predictions by following her instructions.

I haven't seen anything on the site that looks obviously incorrect, but I'm willing to grant that you have more experience with a wider range of herps than I do.

Even so, don't you think it's a little "conspiracy-theory-ish" to think that Kaplan is intentionally propagating false information in hopes of people killing their animals so that they will turn against the pet trade? It's not that this *couldn't* be what's going on, but is it really the most likely explanation? Why not think that Kaplan is sincere if misguided? I guess what kills me is that the same people who rush to defend pet stores and corporations, always seem to be ready to paint animal-rights types as evil people whose intention is to hurt pet owners rather than protect pets. I do think that organizations like PETA are too extreme, but I tend to think that many of their followers are more misguided than evil.

Check the sections on "The Pet Trade" and "Animal Rights" and then compare these to credible external sources, like CITES data. She lies, constantly and freely, to promote her radical views on animals in captivity.

I've read these sections semi-carefully and I still don't see anything that extreme. That is not to say that I agree with everything that she says... just that I don't see anything that strikes me as obviously crazy.

"I'd like to see a total ban, but I know that is unlikely." - Kaplan, in an interview with the Washington Post in 2003, as part of an article about "exotic species" (like corn snakes and leopard geckos) in captivity.

And from the same article, discussing the monkeypox outbreak that occurred among captive rodents, "Outbreaks like monkeypox tend to be too limited to spur broad action on the exotics trade. Unfortunately, I think the monkeypox scare is just going to be a brief blip on the screen." She wanted more people to get sick, in order to spur legislative backlash.

She's been a vocal supporter of various initiatives and movements which had shared backing from PETA and the HSUS, known and self acknowledged animal rights organizations. "Petno" the California Care Sheet push which was soundly opposed by organizations like USARK and many local pet related business owners and a few of the reworded care laws that define pet owners as "Animal Guardians" and have been immediately turned around by the AR groups to claim that animal ownership is illegal slavery.

A couple of things bother me here:
(1) Just because she supports initiatives that are also supported by PETA and the HSUS doesn't make her (or the initiatives, for that matter) bad. I'm sure that even Hitler and I could agree on something... that doesn't mean that I'm like Hitler. (Or, to use a more contemporary example, Saddam Hussein was known to like Doritos... but that doesn't mean Doritos are evil!)
(2) This is all additional information about Kaplan herself, not about the website in particular. Knowing more about her personal beliefs may make me more skeptical about the information on the site, but it doesn't show that anything on the site is wrong.

In this instance, you expressly endorsed her website.

I have no fear of educated and knowledgeable individuals reading her website, because they can identify the traps, the lies and the misinformation for what it is and summarily reject it.

I do have a fear of naive individuals, who may not have as finely honed an ability to detect bullshit when reading about animal related topics being told to use her site as a resource though.

Perhaps I should have been more careful to only endorse the *particular page* that I linked to. That said, having read though her website, I haven't seen anything regarding animal care that seems obviously wrong, but I defer to your greater experience on this one. I will not recommend her site in the future if for no other reason than the controversy that seems to surround this person. If there are plenty of other sources out there, then there's no need to reference one that has been branded as "questionable".

It would be a bit different if she were not presenting all this as being factual information. If she simply and directly wrote articles about her philosophical beliefs that pet ownership was immoral, then they could be read for what they are and accepted or disregarded as the reader saw fit. What she claims to be (and is not) is an informational authority, which places different demands on the entire enterprise and makes her blatantly incorrect statements far more severe a transgression.

Marx and Singer may be controversial and that's fine, because of the fields they work in. Math textbooks are held to an entirely different standard. Animal care should be treated more like the latter than the former.

I was under the impression that her site did separate out the parts regarding animal care from her personal essays about pet ownership and the pet trade. However, I take it that the issue will come down to whether or not her animal care information is correct. If you are right that her information is riddled with errors (especially if there's evidence that she is intentionally misleading people on reptile care), then my point would no longer stand.

Regardless of who's right and who's wrong, I always enjoy talking with you!

 

[robin]

yeah... i am too tired to post. do it for me please seamus



note * Melissa Kaplan is bad. stay away from her shit. it will rot your brain and make your breath smell bad.

 

[Wowoklol]

I haven't seen anything on the site that looks obviously incorrect, but I'm willing to grant that you have more experience with a wider range of herps than I do.

Even so, don't you think it's a little "conspiracy-theory-ish" to think that Kaplan is intentionally propagating false information in hopes of people killing their animals so that they will turn against the pet trade? It's not that this *couldn't* be what's going on, but is it really the most likely explanation? Why not think that Kaplan is sincere if misguided? I guess what kills me is that the same people who rush to defend pet stores and corporations, always seem to be ready to paint animal-rights types as evil people whose intention is to hurt pet owners rather than protect pets. I do think that organizations like PETA are too extreme, but I tend to think that many of their followers are more misguided than evil.



I've read these sections semi-carefully and I still don't see anything that extreme. That is not to say that I agree with everything that she says... just that I don't see anything that strikes me as obviously crazy.



A couple of things bother me here:
(1) Just because she supports initiatives that are also supported by PETA and the HSUS doesn't make her (or the initiatives, for that matter) bad. I'm sure that even Hitler and I could agree on something... that doesn't mean that I'm like Hitler. (Or, to use a more contemporary example, Saddam Hussein was known to like Doritos... but that doesn't mean Doritos are evil!)
(2) This is all additional information about Kaplan herself, not about the website in particular. Knowing more about her personal beliefs may make me more skeptical about the information on the site, but it doesn't show that anything on the site is wrong.



Perhaps I should have been more careful to only endorse the *particular page* that I linked to. That said, having read though her website, I haven't seen anything regarding animal care that seems obviously wrong, but I defer to your greater experience on this one. I will not recommend her site in the future if for no other reason than the controversy that seems to surround this person. If there are plenty of other sources out there, then there's no need to reference one that has been branded as "questionable".



I was under the impression that her site did separate out the parts regarding animal care from her personal essays about pet ownership and the pet trade. However, I take it that the issue will come down to whether or not her animal care information is correct. If you are right that her information is riddled with errors (especially if there's evidence that she is intentionally misleading people on reptile care), then my point would no longer stand.

Regardless of who's right and who's wrong, I always enjoy talking with you!

Godwin'd already?? Thread over, you lose!! Haha

 

[Thorgecko707]

13 pages in and this thread went from a young child in need, to a political debate? it has become too long to read.

 

[im faster]

13? Ypu mean 5

 

[Thorgecko707]

13? Ypu mean 5

lol.

 

[Snake&Bat]

I'm brand new to this forum and have no standing whatsoever. However, I think that many of the replies in this thread are very informative and will help a lot of people out in the end (myself included).

Nice replys guys - Thanks!

 

[Thorgecko707]

I'm brand new to this forum and have no standing whatsoever. However, I think that many of the replies in this thread are very informative and will help a lot of people out in the end (myself included).

Nice replys guys - Thanks!

no problem. we'd love to drag you through the hot coals any day. welcome to the forum.

 

[Wowoklol]

lol.

Up you "posts per page" setting. Thread is only 3 pages for me.

 

[sjt6494]

I just have to say forget who or where ypu get it from the outcome will be the same.....I got my gecko for 30 bucks and she is fine....there is a place further north and they charge 110 for a leo..and you have the same risks.

 

[Kat&Rin]

Wow, lol, reading all this has actually made me tired! XD I wanted to get my 2 cents in on this whole thing after having read....most of it, with the exception being that I only skimmed through the latest, longer, posts about this Melissa Kaplan or whatever lol.

So, I'm 15, I've been an animal lover since as long as I can remember...my grandparents had a pond and ever since I was old enough to not have to fear falling in and drowning I've been absolutely enamoured with reptiles, bugs (except for spiders) and animals in general. Without trying to give myself a big head, I do believe I'm a very responsible pet owner. For me the fun is partly in the research and, when it came to my leo, and with all my other pets in general, I did extensive research. I browsed through so many websites cross checking information to make sure it was accurate (especially when it came to feeding, supplementation, temperatures, substrate etc.) that I started to feel like a bit of an expert (Though I still have a LOT to learn) I've always known that, generally speaking, petstore employees aren't terribly reliable when it comes to how you should care for your pets. Its one of the reasons I want to work in a petstore. I'm perfectly aware that in many respects the well-being and care of my pets relys heavily upon my parents, however I do whatever I can to pitch in, and no one can argue that they are definitely MY animals. I'm the one who did all the research, I find myself having to patiently explain (and sometimes not so patiently) to my mother that 'No, you can't use sand as a substrate, theres a chance for impaction.' or whatever else.

Now, as far as Stimpy is concerned I have to agree that being a teenager is NOT fun lol. True, we don't have to pay rent, but every day, (with the exception of the summer months) us teenagers are forced together in a social environment called 'school'. Not only are we forcing our brains to soak up information like a sponge every day whether we will it or no, but we also have to deal with being around people who we may have issues with every day no matter what....unless you're sick or on vacation And this lasts for many years Kindergarten-Grade 12 (in Canada anyways, I know it differs sometimes) ,this is a HUGE portion of our lives and its incredibly stressful. At least when your an adult you can avoid the people who irritate you. I think its commendable that Stimpy is working, helping out with rent, and doing his best to take care of his pets. Does that mean I approve of how he bashed all of you? No. However, I think a little patience would have been commendable on some of your behalfs. Yes, Stimpy could have divulged more information, yes he should have had money for vet bills. But in life things don't always work out and emergencies happen.....I dunno, I just think there could have been a more peaceable way of going about this whole topic without enflaming anyone. Just don't group all teenagers as irresponsible pet owners, (I know none of you really did I'm just making this a comment.)

Anyways, this is getting really long and I'm beginning to digress so I think I'll stop now...thank you to anyone who actually reads this through....most of my friends wouldn't get past the first line and as I'm sure is now apparent I love writing long-winded paragraphs XD

All the best of luck Stimpy, and kudos to you for taking Ren to the vet

~Kat