Phantoms

[Okee Reps]

This is going to be touchy subject and I almost didn't pose this question. So I'll try to do this as delicately as possible and HOPE this doesn't get out of hand.

So here it goes........

What exactly makes a Phantom any different from a light Snow Albino. For instance; I own several Tremper Albinos that are light colored. You know the white and yellow ones. When I cross them with snows of course I get very light looking Snow Albinos "similar" to Phantoms. My question is simply are they the same? Does anyone own a Phantom and a light colored Snow Albino? Do they look the same in person? When crossing them do you get Phantoms? Etc.

**(I've deleted this same post several times in the last few months. I'm really not trying to upset or offend anyone I would just like some insight for my personal knowledge, thanks.)

 

[ataber]

It all began when we crossed our own very special Snow line with Super-Hypomelanistics Carrot Tails, in the hopes that the offspring would exhibit reduced pattern on the head, body and tail. The results were successful, so we then took the offspring from that union and crossed it into our most extreme Sunglows (Tremper albino strain). These offspring were even more unique, exhibiting reduced pattern from the head to the tail and the background coloration ranged from white to pastel yellow to a greenish hue. With the project moving in the right direction, we took the final step, which was selectively breeding the most exotic offspring to one another. This merger created the gecko we decided to name ‘Phantom.’

this is from TUG's website and is their explanation of the morph and should answer your question what is different, genetically at least.

 

[Mel&Keith]

Thank you Atabar, that's exactly what I was going to link to. Basically the difference between the Phantom and a SHTCT Mack Snow Tremper is that they used their line of Snows to make it.

 

[Okee Reps]

How many different snow lines are there?

 

[Mel&Keith]

TUG, Mack, Gem.....did I forget any?

 

[dprince]

Albey's. :main_thumbsup:

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Line bred Snows as well

 

[Mel&Keith]

Thanks guys! I knew I was forgetting at least one or two!

 

[Okee Reps]

I might have to start a new post for the new questions that have arisen from these answers.

Ok first, Mack snows and line bred snows aren't compatible, so I've read. But you can make super snows from Mack snow x Gem snow (also read that somewhere). Are any of the other lines compatible? And if so, can somebody please explain how all these other lines came about and if they are unrelated?

 

[Kotsay1414]

I might have to start a new post for the new questions that have arisen from these answers.

Ok first, Mack snows and line bred snows aren't compatible, so I've read. But you can make super snows from Mack snow x Gem snow (also read that somewhere). Are any of the other lines compatible? And if so, can somebody please explain how all these other lines came about and if they are unrelated?

Mack Snows and TUG Snows have also been bred together to make Super Snows. Jeanie from USA Geckos was able to produce the Super Snow. I have also heard the same for LineBred Snows, but have yet to see proof.

 

[fallen_angel]

Ok first, Mack snows and line bred snows aren't compatible, so I've read. But you can make super snows from Mack snow x Gem snow (also read that somewhere). Are any of the other lines compatible? And if so, can somebody please explain how all these other lines came about and if they are unrelated?

That is incorrect, mack snows can breed with any other snow, including line bred snows. Albey started her line with Mack Snows, and then line bred the whitest offspring to get to the really white offspring she is producing now..

We have a line bred snow female that bred with our mack snow male, and she has laid 3 clutches (all fertile).. Two of the eggs have hatched, and we expect two more to hatch by Sunday (or so). We suspect one of our current hatchlings to be a pastel snow, and the other is a mack snow.

 

[fallen_angel]

Here is a good link about Mack Snows:
http://www.mkgeckos.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mack_Snow

and here is Albey's explanation on line bred snows:
http://www.albeysreptiles.com/dis.lbs.htm

 

[Lottiz]

TUG, Mack, Gem.....did I forget any?

line bred (Ray Hine)

 

[Okee Reps]

That is incorrect, mack snows can breed with any other snow, including line bred snows....

I think you misunderstood me, when I use the term "compatible" I'm referring to the ability to produce Super Snows. I know they can bred to them, and it only stands to assume that if you put a line bred snow to a mack snow you would get really white snows. But here's a question for you totally off topic. When you do that how will you determine which one of the offspring are Mack Snows, carrying the Co-dominate genes and which are Line Bred Snows and carrying no such gene?

As for Line Bred Snows x Mack Snows creating Super Snows I would like to hear from someone who has bred those two together and produced one because genetically that doesn't seem possible. I could be wrong tho, I'm wrong a lot.

And............Do these combinations produce Super Snows:

Mack Snow x Gem Snow
Mack Snow x TUG Snow
Gem Snow x TUG Snow

If so are we 100% certain that they are indeed different traits? Did they pop up randomly in different breeders collections? Wild caught maybe?

 

[GeckoRing]

Urban states that theirs come from a wild caught group. I believe we can be sure they are different due to the fact that you can breed a TUG to a Mack and get a SS, but TUG xTUG does not produce SS. As to which hatchlings are carrying which genes, I'm not sure, interesting though. I'm thinkin that the offspring would have some from each parent, so crossing them together would mostlikely produce SS, however, would they if crossed back with a TUG......

 

[Nigel4less]

That is incorrect, mack snows can breed with any other snow, including line bred snows. Albey started her line with Mack Snows, and then line bred the whitest offspring to get to the really white offspring she is producing now..

We have a line bred snow female that bred with our mack snow male, and she has laid 3 clutches (all fertile).. Two of the eggs have hatched, and we expect two more to hatch by Sunday (or so). We suspect one of our current hatchlings to be a pastel snow, and the other is a mack snow.

Albey's a man !

 

[fallen_angel]

I think you misunderstood me, when I use the term "compatible" I'm referring to the ability to produce Super Snows. I know they can bred to them, and it only stands to assume that if you put a line bred snow to a mack snow you would get really white snows. But here's a question for you totally off topic. When you do that how will you determine which one of the offspring are Mack Snows, carrying the Co-dominate genes and which are Line Bred Snows and carrying no such gene?

As for Line Bred Snows x Mack Snows creating Super Snows I would like to hear from someone who has bred those two together and produced one because genetically that doesn't seem possible. I could be wrong tho, I'm wrong a lot.

And............Do these combinations produce Super Snows:

Mack Snow x Gem Snow
Mack Snow x TUG Snow
Gem Snow x TUG Snow

If so are we 100% certain that they are indeed different traits? Did they pop up randomly in different breeders collections? Wild caught maybe?

I see what you are saying, I'll definitely let you know if we produce a super snow from our pairing. It's what we're hoping for, since our MS female isn't laying this season!

I know nothing about TUG btw, so I'm not even touching that part of the topic, lol

As for the offspring, I suppose the only way to truly advertise them would be just to say "from a mack snow X line bred snow pairing" until more is known about the genetics of the pairing.. Maybe Albey could help on this one..

 

[fallen_angel]

Albey's a man !

I did realize this after I posted and so I'm terribly sorry for saying "she" and "her"!!

 

[ataber]

That is incorrect, mack snows can breed with any other snow, including line bred snows. Albey started her line with Mack Snows, and then line bred the whitest offspring to get to the really white offspring she is producing now..

according to the link you posted(which ive read before of course)albey didnt start his line with MACK snows....he started it with snow leos from A1 reptiles back in the late 90's.

 

[fallen_angel]

according to the link you posted(which ive read before of course)albey didnt start his line with MACK snows....he started it with snow leos from A1 reptiles back in the late 90's.

You're absolutely right, I re-read the link after posting, and it doesn't say "Mack" at all, so that was a misinterpretation on my part, sorry