Pit Bull Agression

JordanAng420

New Member
Messages
3,280
Location
Miami, FL
Well, I have a muzzle for him. I use it when he goes to the vet. I am compleatly capable of controlling my own animal. I'm not sure where THAT one came from. My dog was leashed. His wasn't. And Nautica happens to not like other animals. I was the one who ended up separating them. So how is it that I can't control my own animal? Maybe the other guy should look into getting a freaking leash!

As far as exercise goes, I do play with him in the park that's here in my complex. We go and play fetch on that extendi lead, which I will not be using anymore. He is a bit overweight and could stand to lose a few pounds so more exercise is definately in his near future.

I'm also going to get one of those breaksticks and start carrying it with me.

Thanks again for all the awesome information everyone.
 

Chewbecca

www.ellaslead.com
Messages
1,772
Location
60 miles south of Chicago
Maia-

Are you sure that your dog redirected on you, or did you just "get in the way" while trying to break up the scuffle?

There is a HUGE difference between a dog redirecting on you in that type of situation vs. getting bit trying to break up a dog fight.

If your dog redirected on you, that's more like, you go to grab him, he forgets about the dog he's scrapping with, and he turns ALL that aggression onto you, attacking you instead of the other dog.

Getting bit while breaking up a fight: You go in with your hand or arm to break him up as he attempts to bite the other dog, but he gets your hand/arm instead.

Another example (only using humans with completely made up names):
Todd and Dave get into a fight at the bar. They're both all pumped up with testosterone and ready to battle each other.
They start fighting. Scott decides to get inbetween and break them up.

Getting in the way: Todd is going to punch Dave, Scott steps between them at that moment, and he gets the hit instead of Dave. Oops. Unfortunate accident. After Todd is not so amped up, and the fight is broken up and done, Todd apologizes for hitting Scott on accident.

Redirection: Todd goes to punch Dave as Scott jumps in to stop them.
Scott jumping in to break up the fight causes Dave to beat up Scott and Dave now is beating the crap out of Scott, forgetting all about his want to beat the crap out of Todd.
This is a behavior that often escalates fights.
 

ElapidSVT

lolwut?
Messages
1,370
Location
Grass Valley, California
Well, I have a muzzle for him. I use it when he goes to the vet. I am compleatly capable of controlling my own animal. I'm not sure where THAT one came from.
umm... it came from the fact that even though your dog was leashed you were unable to stop it from attacking another animal. luckily it was only a dog this time.

incidents like this are precisely why there are laws in place to protect the general public.
 

Chewbecca

www.ellaslead.com
Messages
1,772
Location
60 miles south of Chicago
umm... it came from the fact that even though your dog was leashed you were unable to stop it from attacking another animal. luckily it was only a dog this time.

incidents like this are precisely why there are laws in place to protect the general public.

She was unable to do so because of a Flexi-lead.

And JUST BECAUSE her dog attacked another dog, doesn't mean it's some blood hungry BEAST that's going to "eat a baby next time.":main_rolleyes:
Jesus.

Human aggression and dog/animal aggression are two totally separate forms of aggression.
 

snowgyre

New Member
Messages
588
Location
Athens, GA
Yeah, the leash isn't good, not that she couldn't control her animal. The point is that she had her animal under control when another out-of-control dog got too close. She didn't do anything wrong here, we're simply giving her information about how to improve her future dog walking endeavors (and what to do with the problem she just had). We're not finger pointing or accusing anyone of foul play.
 

clegault

New Member
Messages
52
Location
St. Thomas ON
Out of curiosity, why are some of you against the use of muzzles? As long as you condition your dog to a muzzle and make it a good thing I don't see what problem there is with them... in fact IMO all dogs should be conditioned to a muzzle and all 4 of my dogs accept a muzzle being put on (I have two 7 year old aussies, a 4 month old aussie and a 1 1/2 year old doberman). Situations may arise that a muzzle would be great to have and a dog that will accept you putting it on them... such as a serious injury where a dog won't let you touch it
 

Leomyster

New Leo Lover
Messages
99
Location
Tennessee
I know this topic ended pretty much on the 8th but I would like to put my two cents in :D

Personally I am terrified of pits and I really do not like them, however, considering your pit was on a leash and the other persons dog was off a leash I feel no sorrow for that persons dog. I also live in an apartment complex and, I don't know about your apartment laws, but we must have all dogs a leash at all times, therefore the person whom did not have their dog fully restrained was in the wrong therefore I would say would have absolutely no cause to press charges. Now regards to your pit bull being aggressive, I am very well aware of everyone who so called wants to have a ban against pit bulls, me being one of those people for some time, however, all dogs at one time were breed from wolves and then domesticated, therefore all dogs have the potential to attack at anytime. Dogs were once wild animals and all animals have the potential to attack no matter the breed! I would say to worry about the other person sueing you because that other person was in the wrong when they took their animal out off leash. You were in the right because your animal was on a leash.

Thank you for reading my long drawn out comment but I feel very passionate about dogs, well animals for that matter, and had a lot to say.

Also I no longer support the ban of pit bulls jut to inform you :D I have rethought my previous dislike for the breed.
 

mindgamer8907

New Member
Messages
144
I have to agree that your dog was not by any means out of control. While the the leash you had was not the best, it was still a leash, that limits the distance your animal could travel without taking you with it. The other dog would not have been in more than a barking match if it too had been on a leash. I don't know the exact distances travelled, but I'm guessing that even if the two dogs had been on very long leashes, it would only take a quick drag in the opposite direction to keep the two dogs from physically making or keeping contact. I don't like the idea of dragging my dog by the neck or shoulders most of the time, but if it's something that keeps her from fighting another animal I'm all for it. That guy should have had his dog on a leash, and not had to put it on afterward. It's like making love and putting the condom on after, in that it's almost entirely completely pointless at the time of use.

The second idea is that a muzzle in dog psych. is a hindrance for their greatest defense: their offensive teeth. If they can't truly defend themselves from an attacking dog, they'll grow more submissive or more aggressive (usually the first). They'll roll over to any dog that so much as raises its hackles, which is a general greeting or a threat (depending on the mouth/tooth action, tail action, or body stance). It breaks the dog in the same way a beating can because essentially the dog is losing dominance to every dog it meets. Just to remind everyone how dominance is established in two forms: physical fights (can be real or play) or (the escalation before a real fight usually) physical displays.

Though I don't own a Pitbull, I agree with the assertions that the dog is misunderstood. I used to volunteer at an animal shelter, and the number of pitbulls we had in there was astounding. We even had a mother pitbull with her pups and though she was surrounded by other dogs who wanted to fight or tear away at her babies she was the sweetest thing. Any human who wanted to be nice to her was met with a tail wag and a lick, while any dog that showed friendly signs was let into her company without real hesitaiton. If the other dogs got too rough with her pups she'd nip their ear (a standard show of dominance/disapproval), but otherwise she was very docile and friendly. She only ever became aggressive once, when a dog was allowed to linger in front of her enclosure (she had her puppies there too) and growl at them and "air bite" her puppies ear through the gate. The puppy wasn't harmed and neither of the dogs got into a fight, but the german shepherd got hauled off when the mother started to lunge and shake the fence. As soon as the threat was gone, she was back to taking care of her babies and didn't care who was there. I don't think of them as an unmanageable breed, any prejudice against a breed is usually misfounded. If cared for correctly (which I feel confident you do Maia) the dog is a delight.

They are also generally good with children (your facetious quip made me think about my grandmother's argument against them: "they eat babies" lol). The only reports I've heard of "tragic pit-bull attacks on babies and children" were the result of mishandling or mistreatment. If I remember, dogs and cats of all breeds can become jealous of a baby and attempt to kill or maim it if they've become the "favorite." The dog was acting as almost any other dog would have in that situation. They just get a bad rap because they are prone to be a bit more aggressive in a pack setting.

Good luck with the jerk next door, and keep us posted.
 

Chewbecca

www.ellaslead.com
Messages
1,772
Location
60 miles south of Chicago
Out of curiosity, why are some of you against the use of muzzles? As long as you condition your dog to a muzzle and make it a good thing I don't see what problem there is with them... in fact IMO all dogs should be conditioned to a muzzle and all 4 of my dogs accept a muzzle being put on (I have two 7 year old aussies, a 4 month old aussie and a 1 1/2 year old doberman). Situations may arise that a muzzle would be great to have and a dog that will accept you putting it on them... such as a serious injury where a dog won't let you touch it
This I understand, and my personal dog IS acclimated to wearing a muzzle.
But will I walk her around my neighborhood in one?
No way. If an aggressive dog were to walk up to us and attempt to attack my dog, who am I to keep my dog from being able to defend herself? That would almost DELETE any step forwards I have made with managing her dog aggression and teaching her that not all dogs need to be hated.

Wearing a muzzle for an injury? Yes.
Wearing a muzzle at the vet's? Yes (though my dog loves any and all human contact, and my vets can do whatever they need to do to her and she never ONCE gets aggressive with them).

If I'm walking my pit bull around my neighborhood wearing a muzzle because other people do not believe leash laws pertain to THEIR dogs, how is that going to look to Joe Public?
It's going to look like I have to muzzle my aggressive pit bull because she might bite PEOPLE.
So PEOPLE should fear my dog.

And that is NOT true.
 

Leomyster

New Leo Lover
Messages
99
Location
Tennessee
I agree with you Rebecca I wouldn't make my dog walk around with a muzzle either. The whole idea of a muzzle is wrong in my opinion. Sure, it is ok at the vet or when the animal is injured but for an injury would a cone not be more humane?

A muzzle being used for any other reason besides the vet or injury is just wrong. By putting, a muzzle on an animal hinders their ability to protect themselves in the event they feel threatened. Though an animal may be aggressive, as long as that animal has an owner that is capable of restraining that dog, why should you use a muzzle? IMO if you can't handle your dog you shouldn't have it. A dogs only way of protecting itself is by way of its mouth, would you take a humans right to protect themselves from a robber by using a gun or any other form of protection away just because that person may be a little more aggressive than most? I think not. Therefore, in a sense to put a muzzle on your dog just because others do not obey a leash law or parents do not watch when their young child goes up to an unfamiliar dog and tries to pet it is absurd. It is not the dogs fault that he feels threatened by a strange person or unfamiliar dog. Therefore, the use of a muzzle IMO is just inhumane.
 

clegault

New Member
Messages
52
Location
St. Thomas ON
I don't mean for walking them with a muzzle (dogs in general) however in Ontario if you own any dog under the BSL you MUST muzzle your dog ANYTIME you step off your property with it- I don't agree with it all... However muzzles IMO is humane in many situations including dog daycares. In a daycare situation (I work for one) if you have an aggressive dog muzzling it can make a world of difference. There are several instances where a muzzle has essentially saved the dogs life because the owners (for whatever reason) cannot properly maintain the energy level or behavioral problems the dog may have and use daycare as an outlet for there energy and help to socialize the dog. Please keep in mind that in the daycare situation dogs are constantly supervised (In ours anyway I cannot comment on other daycares) so the dog with the muzzle isnt going to become more aggresive or submit as mentioned above but it prevents staff and other dogs from being bitten. We don't live in a perfect society and until we do there will be people who own dogs that they really shouldn't...

In terms of the cone/muzzle situation it depends on the dog... one of mine freaks if you put a cone on her she cannot handle it at all and in that case a muzzle works better. Also if you have a spacially inept dog a cone can be damaging to your house. What I originally meant by an injury is for example if your dog is out running in the woods and hurts itself badly and won't let you near it, the muzzle is good for transport.
 

Chewbecca

www.ellaslead.com
Messages
1,772
Location
60 miles south of Chicago
WHY would anyone bring their aggressive dog to a dog daycare????

That is just CRAZY to me.


I mean, the fact that a person's dog needs to be MUZZLED at the daycare should really tell that person their dog needs work or needs not to be at the daycare.

What is wrong with people?:main_rolleyes:
 

clegault

New Member
Messages
52
Location
St. Thomas ON
okay aggressive is the wrong word I should have explained that better... socially awkward is a better term... these dogs are for example 2 years old and have not been properly socialized up to this point... My doberman was attacked by a well socialized newfie and it wasn't an act of aggression... shes a dog that plays hard and doesnt really back off when the other dog has had enough... now as a condition for her to be in daycare she must wear a muzzle, this has NOT hindered her attitude in any way and she still plays like it isnt even on her *keep in mind the dogs are supervised* (In terms of my dog being bitten things happen even in controlled environments)
In my experiance the dogs that have been conditioned to a muzzle in our daycare still put other dogs in place without the risk of those dogs being bitten severly and everyones mind is put to ease.
 

Alusdra

New Member
Messages
475
Location
Washington, DC
We had a really dog-aggressive (as in seeing a behaviorist and almost euthanized because of it) smallish shepherd mix that accidentally got put in doggie day care. We about had a heart attack when we pulled up to the place and saw her in the kennel with all the other dogs. I yelled at them for a good 10 minutes as they brought her out- something along the lines of "what part of 'kennel' meant 'daycare'? And NO I'm not paying extra for the play time!"

It went fine, though. Possibly because she was more owner-protective-aggressive? I have no idea. But that never happened again! A muzzle might have been an idea, though, in retrospect. She could and did live with dogs after weeks of slow, careful introductions with positive training.
 

Chewbecca

www.ellaslead.com
Messages
1,772
Location
60 miles south of Chicago
okay aggressive is the wrong word I should have explained that better... socially awkward is a better term... these dogs are for example 2 years old and have not been properly socialized up to this point... My doberman was attacked by a well socialized newfie and it wasn't an act of aggression... shes a dog that plays hard and doesnt really back off when the other dog has had enough... now as a condition for her to be in daycare she must wear a muzzle, this has NOT hindered her attitude in any way and she still plays like it isnt even on her *keep in mind the dogs are supervised* (In terms of my dog being bitten things happen even in controlled environments)
In my experiance the dogs that have been conditioned to a muzzle in our daycare still put other dogs in place without the risk of those dogs being bitten severly and everyones mind is put to ease.


The newfie doesn't sound aggressive, as you stated.
That newfie is RUDE.
There is a difference between rude and aggressive behavior.

Dog aggression is manageable, and unless the dog's breed was specifically bred to be dog aggressive, there is often a very workable solution to helping the dog over-come its dog aggression.

Too bad rude behavior from other dogs, though, can cause trouble for dogs who aren't rude.
And then the victim of the rude behavior is then seen as "aggressive" when they correct the dog. This is often what happens.

And dogs do not forget everything, either.
They can remember things very well.
 

clegault

New Member
Messages
52
Location
St. Thomas ON
yeah, your right I couldn't come up with a correct term for the newf... she is just really rude and overpowering.

True say, dogs do remember things very well, Kallie had to be slowly re-intergrated with other dogs outside of her "fur family" and went into attack-before-your-attacked mode. She is now back to her regular self loving to play with everyone
 
Top