Sub Species info

[StellarExotics]

Can someone POLITELY explain to me how outcrossing to a SUB species is "cleaning up the waters"???

I understand you're starting with a clean slate... I get that part...

But in my eyes, if i was breeding Eublepharis macularius... then why would I not OUTCROSS to another Eublepharis macularius???

For example... I have a trio of F1's from WC Eublepharis macularius.. these (when old enough) will be what I use to outcross my Eublepharis macularius.

why breed it to an afghanicus for example? is the goal making a potential "smaller" version? or varied pattern?

Don't get me wrong... I like the LOOK of them.... but as I JOKED before... a GIANT RADAR would LOOK sweet too...

I know they're not morphs, I DO understand that... and I do understand crossing albino lines etc.etc.


BUT I don't get how crossing to a sub species HELPS the genetics.


Cheers.

 

[RampantReptiles]

The common CB leopard gecko that we breed is actually a mutt of different subspecies. Back when leopard geckos were first imported they did not differentiate between subspecies so everything was bred together. What we have today is mostly macularius but also some of the other subspecies.
So if you think about it, most of what we breed today came from a limited number of imported geckos. Generations upon generations of line breeding and crossing these geckos together; basically every CB leopard gecko is related to one another. When you breed a subspecies into your collection, you are bringing in a gecko that is unrelated to the CB population and so therefore "bringing in new blood" and "strengthening the lines".

People breed different subspecies for different reasons. They like the look or their size. Not every gecko has to be huge like a giant.

Yeah a giant RADAR would be cool. But a giant RADAR poss het Tremper would not be cool. Doesnt matter if it is 25% het, still has a chance of having 2 albino strains.
And I am not going any further into the albino cross arguement...

 

[StellarExotics]

Thank you... I mean that. Actually I kinda thought about it off and on at work today.... I do not care to get into the albino arguement anymore either... I meant what I said when I was done with that thread.

I looked at it in forms of people.... Basically (in lamens terms ) sub species are like nationalities, rather than say race... I'm 3/4 Irish... 1/4 English. (for example) I'd have to breed myself to an English woman In order to strengthen or even ENHANCE the English side of my genetics... where as if my mate is Irish... then that's Washing OUT the English....

Ok Irish weas a bad choice...lol I think everyone has a lil' Irish in 'em.... we get around...


Cheers.

 

[M_surinamensis]

I looked at it in forms of people.... Basically (in lamens terms ) sub species are like nationalities, rather than say race...

 

[Josm315]

Oh, do I feel sorry for your keyboard. =X

Humans are a subspecies in themselves, IE: Homo sapiens sapiens. We share the species "pool" with an extinct subspecies Homo sapiens idaltu. So to say nationalities are like subspecies would be a bit off in the taxonomic ladder of things.

I digress, but I guess it needed to be said to save a forehead. (At least I hope it might in the future)

 

[Dimidiata]

I was beat to the punch. Basicly some leos may be more one species then the other(though as stated, macularius is the main ), the gist of them all look similar if not the same. So outcrossing can enhance the characteristics already obtained by that gecko from that species.(in the offspring of course). You may be A1, A2, A3 and breeding to a second A3 will enhance the A3 specific characteristics in your offspring, opposed to introducing a whole new species.

 

[SamsonizeMe]

Yeah a giant RADAR would be cool. But a giant RADAR poss het Tremper would not be cool. Doesnt matter if it is 25% het, still has a chance of having 2 albino strains.
And I am not going any further into the albino cross arguement...

A Giant RADAR could not possibly be het Tremper, being by definition a homozygotic Bell. The strains of albinism genes all occupy the same locus. Ergo the impossibility (and fundamental problem of crossing the strains).

 

[Thorgecko707]

A Giant RADAR could not possibly be het Tremper, being by definition a homozygotic Bell. The strains of albinism genes all occupy the same locus. Ergo the impossibility (and fundamental problem of crossing the strains).

What about the mixed albinos that produce albino offspring when bred to a bell or Tremper?

 

[SamsonizeMe]

What about the mixed albinos that produce albino offspring when bred to a bell or Tremper?

I'm confused here, as I understood things a zygote with (for instance) one Bell allele and one Tremper allele will never be phenotypically albino. Do all the strains of albinism not attempt to occupy the same locus?

 

[RampantReptiles]

The different albino strains do not occupy the same locus.
It is possible to create a Bell Tremper, you just would not get one from crossing a Bell and Tremper in the first generation. A Bell X Tremper = 100% het Bell het Tremper. You would then have to cross the offspring to one another. The problem is being able to identify that a leo is both albino strains at the same time. With the mixing of strains the signs to identify the different strains get mixed together, or one covers the other, or both...

 

[SamsonizeMe]

Color me misinformed then. This seems like a less dire or immediate problem than my previous understanding... albeit possibly more problematic further down the generational timeline. Has this been confirmed by breeding (example) a Bell to a Tremper (het Bell) and getting a Bell?

 

[RampantReptiles]

Some reading material for ya
http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=49197

"Bubble gum" Albino
http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=78043

 

[Thorgecko707]

It has been done many times.

 

[KelliH]

Outcrossing is good.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I honestly don't see the difference in crossing a SHTCTB with an E. fasciolatus and crossing an E. fasciolatus with an E. montanus. 99.9% of ALL the leopard geckos we work with today are really 'mutts' anyway. It's great to keep them pure, but with the shallow gene pools we have for the sub-species here in the USA, we might very well be doing more harm than good as far as their genetics are concerned. Just sayin'...

 

[im faster]

I have still never seen a picture of a "bubblegum albino"