Subspecies discussion

[snared99]

Im curious everyones take on mixing subspecies of what we already have in the leo morphs. I personally like to keep it pure, but torn by the possibilities that can be made by placing a new subspecies into the mix. Whats everyones thoughts?

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

I think that making Sub x Morph cross makes really really awesome crosses. But I don't think that there really is a need to cross SubA x SubB. You would make a mutt. On the flip side to that you could possibly make some decent crosses attempting to take the best from each sub and combining it. That's not a risk I personally am willing to take.

Also the subs are great for outcrossing. 100% unrelated blood into a project does yield healthier and larger offspring. (except for the afghans due to they are small to begin with)

Monts and Fascio's crossed into anything Lavender or Snow works really well. Turks work well into bold pattern projects. Afghans would work well into anything really high yellow with large black blotches.

 

[roger]

I definately think its hypocritical of us to cross subspecies then we tell ppl its wrong to cross albino strains.No logic there IMO

 

[robin]

i say keep em as pure as we can. however no one can really claim they have pure this or that because everyone is going off the word of one persons to another. unless you collected the gecko and did scale counts, it's just a guestimatiuon.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

Albino strains are a genetic trait that we all know have been proven not compatible. But the sub's are fully compatible with each other from the crosses that we know of. They exhibit no genetic traits so what you're comparing would be apples and oranges.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Beginner question here but what are the subspecies?

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

You have a breakdown of the flow chart for every species in the world it breaks down to Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Suborder, Family, Subfamily, Genus, and then Species. The species of gecko that the Leopard Gecko belongs to is the Macularis. The full scientific name would be Eublepharis Macularis. That is the Genus and Species. The subspecies is a group that belongs to the same species but are not the same either by scale count or by DNA. There are 5 different subspecies and they are the afghanicus, fasciolatus, macularius , montanus , and smithi.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

So the scientific name for each subspecies would be Eublepharis Macularis afghanicus, Eublepharis Macularis fasciolatus, Eublepharis Macularis macularius, Eublepharis Macularis montanus, and Eublephars Macularis smithi. That then designates the Genus, Species, and Subspecies that have been found and/or discovered.

 

[M_surinamensis]

You have a breakdown of the flow chart for every species in the world it breaks down to Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Suborder, Family, Subfamily, Genus, and then Species. The species of gecko that the Leopard Gecko belongs to is the Macularis. The full scientific name would be Eublepharis Macularis. That is the Genus and Species. The subspecies is a group that belongs to the same species but are not the same either by scale count or by DNA. There are 5 different subspecies and they are the afghanicus, fasciolatus, macularius , montanus , and smithi.

Sort of.

Do not capitalize the species designation and they should be in italics to differentiate them from the surrounding text. Genus species subspeciesifapplicable.

There are also a few additional levels in there which you have missed.

Subspecific designations existing at all are a somewhat controversial taxonomic subject. The further down the taxonomic lines one gets, the more variable the distinctions that are cited as having taxonomic significance can become. Subspecific designations are intended to represent populations of animals which are almost but not entirely distinct when it comes to breeding groups. Generally these are noted based on physical differences from the larger population but there is no standard requirement which demands different scale counts.* Isolated populations or geographically separate populations are often tagged as being subspecifically distinct.

Taxonomy is a very subjective science at the moment, it is essentially a question of labeling observations and it has seen some rapid advances and changes in the approaches used for data collection in the last hundred-hundred fifty odd years. Taxonomic designations are established by general consensus among biologists, with plenty of outlying opinions and conflicting methodologies leaving room for interpretation and debate.

Incidentally... the full lineage would be- cellular organisms; Eukaryota; Fungi/Metazoa group; Metazoa; Eumetazoa; Bilateria; Coelomata; Deuterostomia; Chordata; Craniata; Vertebrata; Gnathostomata; Teleostomi; Euteleostomi; Sarcopterygii; Tetrapoda; Amniota; Sauropsida; Sauria; Lepidosauria; Squamata; Scleroglossa (Lacertilia); Gekkota; Gekkonidae; Eublepharinae; Eublepharis macularius ssp. Replacing "ssp" with the subspecies of your choice.

*the ones based on behavioral isolating mechanisms are more interesting anyway.

 

[tlbowling]

What exactly are all our morphs subspecies that we are breeding today? Would I know what subspecies all my morphs decended from?

The following quote was taken from AC Reptiles website

"The species was not split up into subspecies until the late 1970's and early 1980's, a time when taxonomists began a trend of splitting up several reptile species. In fact, it was around this same period when carpet pythons (Morelia spilota) were also dividedinto subspecies. As with other species, leopard geckos had already made their way into th collections of several hobbyists who had begun breeding them in sma numbers. As such, most of the leopard geckos in the hobby today are mixture of two or more subspecies."

I'm not saying that its right or wrong yet...I'm really just trying to say that this has probably already been done, not even on purpose, just by creating all the morphs / combos available today?