Super Zeros/Stingers and how this morph works.

[OhioGecko]

Actually, Thad, I bred WC Zero to Whiteout Zero. I produced 2 Zeros, S Whiteout Zeros and 1 Whiteout. I had a Zero het Patternless in my collection that I acquired from Pat Kline. I'll add more later, I just figured I'd try and correct you before - make a big post.

So you breed two Zeros together and you got a zero. This is exactly what I said and goes along with being recessive. The only way to prove this is co-dom would be by breeding to a normal and getting visual zeros.

 

[OhioGecko]

Lee,

No you didn't. David just posted he bred a white out zero to zero. Of course you will get zeros from this! He did not breed a zero to a normal. I have read everything in the post. You are ignoring or wishing things to be true that are not. Just keep on thinking what your thinking. Read my post at the beginning when I explain what you will get from breeding a Zero to a Zero.

 

[OhioGecko]

Lee,

Albino and Toffee balls are allelic, one is t+ the other is t-. Are these traits simple recessive?

 

[Carinata]

Thad,
How does Hidden Gene work it's way into all of this? Is it allelic with Zero/Stinger? My other question is, how did JMG come their original conclusion that the gene was co-dominant?
Dave

 

[OhioGecko]

I don't know how the hidden gene works into zeros. I do not have any hidden gene geckos. I believe JMG wrote a statement that was posted in this thread and on their website that explains how they originally thought it was co-dom and how they proved it recessive.

 

[Carinata]

Thad,
I believe Jeff said it was indeed a co-dom/dominant trait. If it indeed is, the Zero/Stinger has to be to be aswell. I haven't read every word of this thread so Iestions are redundant.
This is what I believe you are saying- Zero's are essentially a visually het marker, with Super Zero being a homozygous form. They are not co_dom, because of how variable the het marker actually is, despite how visually pronounced it is.

Urljet,
I saw you asked me to answer a question. Which question would that be. By the way, it looks like you or someone deleted your post.

Dave

 

[Carinata]

It looks like "urljet", joined today and has never posted besides the one he deleted. Would you care to introduce yourself?
Dave

 

[OhioGecko]

Thad,
I believe Jeff said it was indeed a co-dom/dominant trait. If it indeed is, the Zero/Stinger has to be to be aswell. I haven't read every word of this thread so Iestions are redundant.
This is what I believe you are saying- Zero's are essentially a visually het marker, with Super Zero being a homozygous form. They are not co_dom, because of how variable the het marker actually is, despite how visually pronounced it is.

Urljet,
I saw you asked me to answer a question. Which question would that be. By the way, it looks like you or someone deleted your post.

Dave

David, please read their post. They said it is simple recessive. Please please read it.

And no, I'm not saying it is simple recessive because of the variable "het marker". I said it was recessive because I breed a Super zero to 5 normals and over 30 babies I hatched no visibles. Then JMG came out with their statement that you need to read!

 

[EverEvolvingExotics]

Thad, I want you to know that I'm not firm that this trait is a co-dom or a recessive. The point of forums is to have open discussions. I have been into this trait since before it was considered a recessive and have read and researched deeply into everything that have unfolded since. I can very much see why these trait have come to be determined a recessive with your results provided but there are still many questions and variables that have been unanswered. I am in no way dismissing your results. For the majority of this thread it has been you and I going back and forth, without others discussing it with us and it is difficult to say the least to make progress without others input. This trait went from a co-dom to a recessive in a short period of time with limited examples to be switched so quickly, while still seeing so many unanswered anomalies. I am not the type of person to read something and believe it as fact without hearing or seeing multiple aspects.

Before I reply more on the results I would like to get other breeders to either reply directly to this thread or let me directly quote them. I have emailed numerous others and hopefully they respond with some results. I am especially interested in how the Hidden Gene works with Zeros/Stingers. I quoted them above directly from JMG and their results were from a first time pairing resulting in visual combo morphs. I just don't understand how this could be a simple recessive with these results.

Again, I am not 100% for either hypothesis of these traits being recessive or co-dom, I just believe that genetics are not black or white. They are much more complicated and I would like to have a reasonable open discussion about it until everything has been answered.

 

[OhioGecko]

Thad, I want you to know that I'm not firm that this trait is a co-dom or a recessive. The point of forums is to have open discussions. I have been into this trait since before it was considered a recessive and have read and researched deeply into everything that have unfolded since. I can very much see why these trait have come to be determined a recessive with your results provided but there are still many questions and variables that have been unanswered. I am in no way dismissing your results. For the majority of this thread it has been you and I going back and forth, without others discussing it with us and it is difficult to say the least to make progress without others input. This trait went from a co-dom to a recessive in a short period of time with limited examples to be switched so quickly, while still seeing so many unanswered anomalies. I am not the type of person to read something and believe it as fact without hearing or seeing multiple aspects.

Before I reply more on the results I would like to get other breeders to either reply directly to this thread or let me directly quote them. I have emailed numerous others and hopefully they respond with some results. I am especially interested in how the Hidden Gene works with Zeros/Stingers. I quoted them above directly from JMG and their results were from a first time pairing resulting in visual combo morphs. I just don't understand how this could be a simple recessive with these results.

Again, I am not 100% for either hypothesis of these traits being recessive or co-dom, I just believe that genetics are not black or white. They are much more complicated and I would like to have a reasonable open discussion about it until everything has been answered.

:main_thumbsup:

 

[OhioGecko]

Lee, just out of curiosity. Have you heard of the Albino and Toffee balls being allelic, one is t+ the other is t-.

 

[EverEvolvingExotics]

Lee, just out of curiosity. Have you heard of the Albino and Toffee balls being allelic, one is t+ the other is t-.

Sorry, for awhile the site wasn't allowing me to look at any posts. I have not heard that the Albino and Toffee ball are compatible but will have to look into those traits deeper, pretty cool. This gene is really fascinating. I'd really like to get some more information on how the Hidden Gene paired to Zeros/Stingers has such an impact on first year pairings though. It's one of the big reasons why this trait is so cool. I'm excited to see what else it can do. I'm still waiting on others to reply back to me about their results with Zeros/Stingers but haven't had any luck getting replies. I will continue to post on this thread as I get more info.

Thanks again for all the input, Thad. Maybe one of these days I'll be able to settle on what these traits are, haha.
-Lee

 

[OhioGecko]

Sorry, for awhile the site wasn't allowing me to look at any posts. I have not heard that the Albino and Toffee ball are compatible but will have to look into those traits deeper, pretty cool. This gene is really fascinating. I'd really like to get some more information on how the Hidden Gene paired to Zeros/Stingers has such an impact on first year pairings though. It's one of the big reasons why this trait is so cool. I'm excited to see what else it can do. I'm still waiting on others to reply back to me about their results with Zeros/Stingers but haven't had any luck getting replies. I will continue to post on this thread as I get more info.

Thanks again for all the input, Thad. Maybe one of these days I'll be able to settle on what these traits are, haha.
-Lee

Lee, I think there will be a lot of crazy going on with this gene. I agree with you that there is a lot of potential and unknowns with this gene. We both will be hatching them out this year so sharing info will only help

 

[EverEvolvingExotics]

Lee, I think there will be a lot of crazy going on with this gene. I agree with you that there is a lot of potential and unknowns with this gene. We both will be hatching them out this year so sharing info will only help

Most of my Zero stuff won't be ready until next year, but when they finally are ready to go I'll be pumped to share the results. I'll be on the lookout for your production this season, I know you'll have some fun stuff cooking.