Has anyone else noticed how tail kinks have become increasingly more common over the past few years. I know the giant lines are racked with it and the sunglows are getting bad too. I know Godzilla has an major kink in his tail so that will be spread to almost all of the immediate population. I just wonder how it will play out later in time? Do any of you care if there is a tail kink or is it not as big a deal anymore? Personally I abhor tail kinks and feel like the value drops tremendously, but I focus on carrot tail. Let me know what you think.
Tail Kinks Becoming More Common
- Thread starter bohannbj
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rickmoss95
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small tail kinks(at the tip) dont bother me, but i would not buy one with a major kink. and im sure that if people line breed too much without outcrossing for new blood, that is sure to contribute to kinks...but i am not sure if it is heritable(i have not done any research on this)...but it sure could be.
lillith
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There are heritable kinks and incubation-related kinks; but it's difficult to tell them apart.
I think it's a trait that should be strongly discouraged. I do try to aim for overall good conformation in my leos when selecting holdbacks and breeders. I avoid tails that are too short, eyelid creases, tail kinks, hip problems, loose skin, etc. It's a bit harder to notice these on a gecko than say, a dog or a cat, but you can learn to recognize problems after viewing hundreds of geckos.
There was someone awhile ago who thought it was cute and intentionally tried to create curly-tailed geckos. They got quite the scolding. The trouble with kinked/curled tails that are genetic, is eventually you can end up with spinal deformities and other internal deformities not obvious to the naked eye.
I think it's a trait that should be strongly discouraged. I do try to aim for overall good conformation in my leos when selecting holdbacks and breeders. I avoid tails that are too short, eyelid creases, tail kinks, hip problems, loose skin, etc. It's a bit harder to notice these on a gecko than say, a dog or a cat, but you can learn to recognize problems after viewing hundreds of geckos.
There was someone awhile ago who thought it was cute and intentionally tried to create curly-tailed geckos. They got quite the scolding. The trouble with kinked/curled tails that are genetic, is eventually you can end up with spinal deformities and other internal deformities not obvious to the naked eye.
If we're talking about genetic kinks, then I would have to say that I do think there is a considerable problem with them. For me, an animal with a genetic kink would have to be extraordinary in every other aspect for me to consider breeding it, or buying it. I do think it has some effect on the price of the animal, but it really just depends on the buyer.
I now put down any baby that hatches with a tail kink. I've had a few get them when they were older, but I'm pretty sure it has to do with their hides or getting smashed in a deli cup. I've hatched one really nice baby this season that had a tail kink at hatching. It was put down the same day. If it's not genetic, then I don't mind a tiny bit of kink at the end of the tail, but I prefer to keep geckos that don't have any.
UnicornSpirit
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One Red Stripe girl I recently bought seemed to have no tail kink at all... Recently, she has gotten sick (don't worry, she is currently on vet treatment) but after she got thin you could then see her kink. A real bad kink! I'm mad at myself for not noticing before but I always thoroughly examine my geckos and even looking back at pics you can never see a kink, it's crazy. 
i strongly dislike tail kinks. i do not think it is getting worse. it's always been out there. in some morphs it has gotten better over the years. i think the kinks most people are seeing now a days are from people inbreeding too much. there is no possible way to tell if the tail kink is genetic or not. if you breed why take the chance? kristi, i would be doing the very same thing. bridgette tell me how you know it's genetic or not?
i see some of you saying it adds character. what is that tail kink ends up causing spinal damage later in life? you have no idea if its genetic or not. cull them i say.
i see some of you saying it adds character. what is that tail kink ends up causing spinal damage later in life? you have no idea if its genetic or not. cull them i say.
Tony C
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I don't breed leos anymore, but when I did I culled all defects regardless of severity. The exception of course is if I knew for sure it was a physical injury, I have two Aby Eclipses that I kept who have kinks from biting each other as hatchlings.
Good question, of course it's hard to know for sure. The easiest way is to look at the parents and siblings. If those are all unavailable to see, I would ask the breeder how the incubation went (was there any temp fluxes or egg rolling etc.?) But really the only way I myself would feel totally comfortable breeding an animal with a tail kink that I did not know the cause of would be 1) if the animal was in every other way genetically superior to it's peers and 2) if any of the offspring were to hatch with kinks they would be culled and the parent animal would be pulled from breeding. It's all really about weighing how likely it is that the kink is genetic. If you ask the breeder about the background and it's a linebred animal, then you have more reason for concern than if the animal were from like an Afghan x Bandit pairing.
I said "as long as it doesn't affect the health of the geckos, it adds character". So, yeah, if the gecko can't walk and his spine starts to go out, that's affecting the health. If the gecko is walking fine, eating fine, drinking fine, and seems happy, why on earth would you kill it? Sell it as pet only. I have no plans of ever going into gecko breeding, therefore Joker is a wonderful baby with a very silly personality whom I love. If someone had culled him just for having a goofy tail, I wouldn't have this wonderful little one right now. His tail is still getting fatter and fatter, and he is obviously healthy.
If it causes a serious spinal problem later in life and he has to be put down, he can be put down then - by a vet who will hopefully do it painlessly. But what if it never causes spinal problems, and he lives a full 25 years of happiness?
If it causes a serious spinal problem later in life and he has to be put down, he can be put down then - by a vet who will hopefully do it painlessly. But what if it never causes spinal problems, and he lives a full 25 years of happiness?
The problem with this is that you can't guarantee 100% that you'll always own that gecko. Someone else can take it and breed it to other geckos. It's not worth the chance of passing around bad traits.
I can 100% guarantee that I will always own Joker - and the rest of my pets. If I lost everything I owned (house etc), my parents would take in my pets til I got back on my feet - and they have less interest in breeding geckos than I do. Even if somehow he magically ended up in the breeding pool - again, as long as the tail isn't causing health problems, why does it matter? I'm certainly not perfect looking - I don't expect the same out of my pets.
justindh1
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It is our job of breeders to make them as perfect as possible. That means not breeding anything that could possibly have a genetic defect. The tail kink may not be causing any health issues but the genetic makeup of that tail kink could lead to something that could.
All the ethical issues aside, I just wouldn't buy one. Currently I'm searching for a male super giant with carrot tail. All I can find is a certain big name breeder that has them, but all of them have kinks in the tail, or are definite carriers. I'm looking to drop some serious cash, but I'm not about to start this project off on the wrong foot. Not much of a point in producing full carrot tail giants that look like their tails got smooshed against a wash board.
I had to put down a baby yesterday that was missing the very tip of her tail. I am pretty sure it's from the high temps we've had in my house lately, but I wasn't going to take the chance. It was a very pretty eclipse, but it had to be done. I'm trying way harder this year to notice everything as soon as a baby hatches. Anyone with anything negative right after hatching will be put down. I hate it and it makes me sad everytime, but I need to be a responsible breeder. I've had three this season (so far) that were bad. One had a tail kink at hatching, another had the missing tail tip, and the last one was just too weak to even shed.
fl_orchidslave
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It's never an easy thing to do, but it's the right thing to do for the sake of future leopard geckos. Whether a suspected temp fluctuation is involved or not, it cannot be 100% confirmed thus risking future generations carrying a defect. It's not like there's a shortage of geckos in the market.
sunshinegeckos
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its a sad but necessary part of being a breeder of anything (not just reptiles) I had a Great Dane puppy that started having seizures and we tried everything but in the end we had to put him down. It was hard to do but the best for him.
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