Tell me about TEGUS!

[Dog Shrink]

I swear my boys are gonna kill me with their budding herp addictions. Tegus and toads and balls oh my...

I guess in a way it is kinda my fault for watching youtube videos of these monsters with my #1 son (meaning older not more loved). I should have known better., but I swear these guys are gonna surpass my addiction in no time.

So tell me what you know? The good, the bad and the ugly. I've been doing a bit of reading up on them and it is by no means an in the near future kinda consideration getting one of these bohemiths but I just wanted to get the skinny from those who might be in the know, plus even if we never do get one I enjoy learning about new herps.

I found this guy from his youtube videos http://www.freewebs.com/twoteals/extremegianttegu.htm

The major concerns are housing obviously. How do you house one of these beasts? Feeding... could you use rabbit insted of rats and the other meat sources they recommend. It certainly wold be a great outlet for my cull rabbits from my show stock insted of going to my friends red tailed boa and rabbit meat is suppose to be the best out there being leaner and well all around better than chicken and most other comparable meat sources (don't bust ma chops here guys... circle of life and all), but most important would be temperament. Are they as tameable as this guy makes them out to be? Last thing I want is a pissy 4 foot lizard around the house.

The ones we would specifically be interested in are the Argentine black and white, the argentine red, and the chacoan giant tegu. Aren't they just stunning?

Argentine black and white:

Argentine red:

Chacoan Giant: looks very similar to the black and white to me and this one is not full grown.

So there it is... please let me know what there is to know. Links, personal experiences, what ever you have. Thanks a bunch as always guys, much appreciated. :main_thumbsup:

 

[fuzzylogix]

those tegus are extremely overweight! tegus are very smart lizards and they need a lot of space. the largest i have kept was a 5 foot long male argentine red tegu, and he was rescued by the person i got him from. he was not friendly, lol. now on the other hand, i've heard of them being "puppy dog tame" which if you know me, i don't believe in tame reptiles.

as far as diet and habitat, depends on the specific tegu you are interested in. my argentine red ate more fruits and needed more humidity than some other species. he ate f/t rats every other week and mostly had ground turkey and eggs for his normal protein source. im sure there are more experienced and knowledgeable keepers here that can chime in, but you have to think about housing. these guys are going to need a very large enclosure. my custom built habitat was 8 feet long, 4 feet tall, and 5 feet deep. red tegus love to dig so i had to have at least 2 feet of substrate. and i kept a huge tub of water for him to soak in, but if he ever needed a warm soak, it was a battle.

these are by no means a beginner reptile so i'm glad you are doing your research first. but they can be great pets if handled correctly and kept healthy. but if it's got a mouth, it can bite. and these guys have fairly large teeth and their strength will amaze you.

here is a site that i found helpful

http://www.teguterra.com/tegucaresheet.htm

 

[Dog Shrink]

Thank you Shawn, and yeah I would NEVER consider jumping into a herp of this magnatude with out doing a TON of reserach before hand. I'm fortunate enough to own a HUGE house a lil over 3000 sq feet, built in 1850 with 7 foot ceilings in the basement (10 foot ceilings in the livnig areas) and the ability to make a great space for an animal this size. Of course a basement enclosure would be properly heated and insulated for the herps needs and he would have to share space with my rabbitry but there is actually already some divided areas in the basement and a seperate room that is approx 8 foot wide by 20 foot long that would be great for a herp this size.

What do you think about the feeding of rabbits insted of rats or other whole live prey? Do you think the tegu would be in a cpnstant state of "I wanna eat" seeing as how the rabbitry would be right ont eh other side of that cinderblock wall and he'd be able to smell them from his enclosure?

 

[T-ReXx]

Tegus are definately a more complicated kind of herp to keep. Generally, space is the biggest issue with them, followed by obesity. Tegus are omnivores and should have a varied diet. I don't really see an issue with feeding rabbits VS rats as long as the rabbits were small enough for the tegu to consume the whole animal, they need all of it, bones, fur, meat, organs, gut contents, etc. You can feed larger rabbits but they tend to eviscerate them and make a big mess.

They can make good pets as long as you know what you're getting into. Like all reptiles, not all of them end up taming down. Stay away from Golds or Colombian B&Ws, those are the psychos. Argentines and Chacos can go either way depending on how much handling they get when they are young, and Reds are IMO the best for a tame large tegu choice. Definately do plenty of research, and I'd recommend trying to find someone local who has a large adult so you can actually meet one; not everyone can handle owning a big lizard and you want to handle one before you make a final decision because once you own them they are VERY hard to rehome. I actually saw a pair of adult Argentines on CL not too long ago going for a very low price just because of the "large lizard" concept. They're smart and can be a handful, but can also be a lot of fun to keep. Just keep doing your research beforehand.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Thank you Ted... I was hoping someone would know the difference in the temerpaments between the colors/species. That is very helpful in making a secletion if we decide to go with one. The rabbits I breed don't get bigger than 2.8 pounds (netherland dwarf) so they are small and the babies when 2-5 weeks old are really no different in size than the spred amongs the rat sizes so that is also good to know. I was planningon asking my herp gal at our local mom and pop shop if she had a tegu (since she seems tohave everything else) or knows anyone that does just for the reason you mentioned... handling. I also found a couple of really good tegu forums while surfing last night that I'm burying maself into as well to get the skinny from actual owners, see the problems, pros and cons kinda stuff :main_thumbsup:

 

[clemsonguy1125]

From my knowledge some species can become as tame as reptiles can be if you handle them enough. I was talking to a guy who rescues them the other day and e was telling me about all the injuries he gotten from them and he experienced with them. So I would defiantly get as young of one as possible. Also they get frustrated with too small of enclosures which can cause them too become meaner.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Thank you Clemson... Would your friend that rescues them mind if you could possibly give me his contact info so I coud talk with him about them? I would absolutely want a hatchling to make certain I got it right from the start if we were to go with one of these. Again tho space would not be an issue as I mentioned before with the room in the basement that would be perfect for one once it was insulated and redone to meet a Tegu's needs.

 

[clemsonguy1125]

No problem, I'll pm you his shop info in a minute.

 

[clemsonguy1125]

Contact Info

Edit sorry for the double post.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

I wish you were closer to us Kel, I know where you could get a nice one. Our herp society has a great rescue that has taken in a number of them over the years. They have been lovely animals to both show and use in educational presentations. Bob has a way with them, and they love him and really respond to the love he shows. Even the ones that were a bit aggressive have ended up calming down as they became more secure. You can contact the rescue thru http://jaxherp.com, use the president link. It may take him a bit to respond so be patient. The tegus they take in are almost always full grown and have gotten too large for the owner.. you know how that goes. For your kids, you may not want an adult, so they can all grow up together. But since you're looking at all aspects, no need to rule out a rescue either

 

[Dog Shrink]

That is so cool Laney thank you so much... Maybe time for a trip down to Fla to close up dad's condo anyways and figure out what to do with it. I don't think the dude that's been keeping an eye on it is really gonna want to for much longer altho he is the maint. guy for the development and they were close friends.

SO I presume the Argentine red and Argentine black and white get roughly the same adult size which is....??? I don't know that we have it in us for the extreme giant but I told #1 son I would inquire about all 3. Anyone know if gender plays a roll in temperament? Which is more "docile" male or female?

 

[fl_orchidslave]

If you do end up coming down for fam business, in March there's a Repticon in Tampa. Not far from your dad's place. It's always a good show, lots to see.

 

[T-ReXx]

Sex doesn't really affect temperment. Argentines and Reds both get between 4 to 6 feet, most max out around 5.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Sweet. Thanks for the info Laney. My birthday's in March... Might have to do that if the Gods are nice enough to bless me witha windfall. I actually think my father-in-law has a holiday condo in Tampa but then again Tampa is what about a half hour frmo Palm Harbor?

Wow that's a big lizard aye. Ted... thank you.

 

[M_surinamensis]

I found this guy from his youtube videos http://www.freewebs.com/twoteals/extremegianttegu.htm

That's Bobby Hill.

I have mixed feelings on Bobby Hill. It can be complicated to explain. I would absolutely trust him to sell me an animal and know that it was healthy and backed by the guarantee of an honest, upstanding person. I would trust him to present basic information about the care and husbandry of tegus, he's one of the (possibly THE, it can change from time to time) most prolific tegu breeders in the country and has worked with hundreds of animals.

I would not recommend him as an informational source when it comes to taxonomy or biology. He's extremely competent at keeping tegus as pets and at getting them to breed, it just ends there. He is an expert hobbyist and a professional breeder but not a biologist, not even close, and he doesn't seem to recognize the difference. "Chacoan giants?" He made that up, it's not a recognized species. His animals he calls chacoan giants? He bought the original pair full grown as Argentine B&Ws and there's no information on their history in captivity, no clue where they came from. His thoughts on reptile behavior are often... weird... he has a lot of anecdotal data but suffers from extreme observational bias and draws conclusions he can't really support.

So reading his website is dandy, it's a great place to look at feeding, housing and breeding. It's a terrible place to look at species designations, "taming" tips and natural history.

If you do decide to buy a tegu, definitely consider him as a source. My criticisms of some of his science aside, you won't find a guy who's more upstanding and dedicated to the animals and his customers. I'd say honest too, even though I think he's misrepresenting his "chacoan giants" it's a matter of he and I having different thresholds of proof and not underhanded attempts to manipulate customers.

If you're going to get a tegu as a pet... Argentine black and white, all the way. I'd look at juveniles around a year old, rather than fresh hatched- the tiny little ones of all the tegu species can be a bit flighty and nippy, it's a response to being small enough to eat. I'd look to Bert Langerwerf for the bulk of your information- he passed away a few years ago but Bert was an undisputed top of the field biologist who happened to think reptiles make really neat pets and the work he did is unlikely to be surpassed by anyone for a very long time. He was a rare combination of expertise and passion and absolutely nobody working with them today knows more about tegus than he did. He was nice enough to write a lot of it down for the rest of us.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Wow Seamus.... again... everything I was hoping for. Honestly everyone that has replied here is awesome and I greatly appreciate y'all being so willing to share your expertise with me. Thank you so so much.

Seamus... if I may ask... why are you particularly more fond of the black and white as pets rather than the reds? Just curious but my boy does like the b&w better, but I'm always one to sacrafice looks for personality any day, and do you think Bobby Hill ( All I can think of when I typed that ws the cartoon "King of the HIll") would have yearlings for sale if we decide to go with him as a breeder? His videos are VERY convincing as to their "puppy dog soft" temperaments where they actually seem to CRAVE the human interaction. He must spend a TON of time with his tegus to get them like that (maybe??). have you ever met him or seen his stock? Wonder where he's located?

Sorry, I know... too many questions... again... right...

 

[M_surinamensis]

Seamus... if I may ask... why are you particularly more fond of the black and white as pets rather than the reds?

Behavioral tendencies. For those most commonly found in the pet trade the Argentine black and whites are, in my experience, the most laid back. Reds would be a fairly close second. Then Colombian B&Ws and in dead last are the golds.

Argentines are also bigger, but ultimately I think it's worth a little extra space for an animal that's predisposed towards being pretty docile.

Although with any and all tegus, I'd warn that they can develop very pronounced feeding responses. They're a large, active animal that are among the most intelligent lizards, so recognizing a pattern, especially centered around something like food, is something they do relatively easily. Mixing up the presentation of food can help a lot, or just being aware that when they see those things associated with food (like say, a particular dish), they're going to go flying around with their mouth open wide.

A friend of mine had one, a young adult, that spent about a year in his pet shop. Because of the nature of the work at the shop, it was never really handled except when customers wanted to take a look at it. It recognized keys, keys on a ring, the shape and sound, and associated them with feeding time. Upon opening the enclosure, it would throw itself bodily out the front with the mouth gaped wide. And then after that initial outburst, if food wasn't present, it was puppy-dog docile, content to be picked up, turned over, pet and carried around. As much as I usually am not inclined to use terms like this, it did seem to genuinely enjoy having its head rubbed and would bump against people like a housecat if it was put down on a counter. It was also, after that initial burst, quite willing to gently take food from people's fingers and would wait to be presented with pieces of fruit.

They are big, they are active, they need a lot of space and will eat a lot of food. They have claws and teeth and a tail that they can whip with- but they're also as interactive and intelligent as reptiles get. I, the guy who runs around answering message board threads eagerly explaining to people how their pets are pure instinct, categorize tegus as being highly adaptable (behaviorally) and rewardingly interactive.

do you think Bobby Hill ( All I can think of when I typed that ws the cartoon "King of the HIll") would have yearlings for sale if we decide to go with him as a breeder?

I'm not sure what he'd have. Bobby and I got into some pretty strongly worded disagreements about his use of the word "Chacoan" a couple years ago and I haven't really talked to him since. Incidentally, it's probably best NOT to mention my name if you do look into buying from him. He might add a fifty dollar Seamus fee onto the cost. I am not his favorite person.

He was one of the biggest breeders of tegus though, so there's a good chance he might. Even if he doesn't, getting a hatchling is fine too, just be aware that they're going to be a bit jumpier when they're small. Slightly more skittish. It goes away as they get too big to eat.

His videos are VERY convincing as to their "puppy dog soft" temperaments where they actually seem to CRAVE the human interaction. He must spend a TON of time with his tegus to get them like that (maybe??).

I imagine he spends a bit with them, but the capability for those behaviors is inherent in the animal. His may be a bit more finely conditioned but I have never run into an adult argentine that was totally unhandleable.

have you ever met him or seen his stock? Wonder where he's located?

I've never met him in person, but we both participated actively over on Fauna for... hell, five or six years at least. We have a lot of common acquaintances, I know people who know him and vise versa. I've seen tons of photos of his stock, though not his stock directly. I believe he's in Florida; I am almost positive about that, unless he's moved.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Thank you Seamus... your words are encouraging and a great help in our decision making process. Knowing that the temperament is something inhearant to the breed is reassuring knowing that most of the Argentine b&w should likely be amicable creatures. Sorry to hear of your disagreement with Mr. Hill but then again we can't all get along and we are certainly entitled to different views... heck isn't that what makes us individuals? I would never mention a member's name with out their express permission and their knowing of my intentions to do so so no worries there... no $50 Seamus fee It's good to know at least he is east coast tho if we do decide to go with him for shipping reasons. The less travel the better.

I have read about some of the feeding responses on the tegu forum I signed up on. Scary imagery there... throwing full body gaping mouth at you sounds quite impressive yet scary as hell. They also mention about possible changes in temperament when they go thry "puberty" sexual maturity I presume, at around 18-ish months I think they said but after that the moodiness passes. Feelings? The hatchling jumpiness/bitey-ness you mention you say passes after they realise they cant be eaten anymore.. I imagine that's well past the greenhead stage... would that be approaching the yearling status you mentioned? it makes me feel a bit better seeing the opinions you seem to have for the Argentine b&w tegu. It's almost comforting in a way.

So stupid question (I know no such thing as a stupid question except for theone not asked) but if they lose their tail does it regenerate or is it gone for good? Those things are as long as a buggy whip.

 

[M_surinamensis]

They have some limited ability to regenerate near the tip, but it won't regrow the way you would be familiar with as a gecko keeper. It's also not that inclined to break off, again except a bit near the tip.

 

[acpart]

I know nothing about tegus, but had an interesting time reading things from a relatively local (to me) breeder at this website: http://www.siscoreptiles.com/

Aliza