The future of Leopard Geckos

[Franks_Geckos]

I was thinking about this the other day and thought I would post this question here to see what everyone else has to say on the subject. What do you think the future holds for the Leopard Gecko in regards to breeding, new mutations, new husbandry techniques or products, etc? Do you think that a new genetic mutation (not including a combo morph or anything that is already known to being worked on at the present time) is going to appear soon or perhaps already exists and hasn’t been released yet? Do you think that the number or people working with these geckos will increase or decrease and if so, what factors will lead to this? Do you think that certain traits or morphs that currently exist will become more or less popular in the coming years? Do you think that unwanted traits will increase (from inbreeding) or decrease in the future (due to influx of unrelated bloodlines)? Obviously, everyone’s opinions are welcome and appreciated. I think this is a good topic that can generate a lot of positive conversations.

 

[Nigel4less]

I think we will see some new Mutations pop out as we see new Bloodlines come into the country, via Europe or the Middle east(assuming everything over there gets figured out). I also think we will see the number of people breeding Leopards increase as well, since more of these Mutations we once thought Holy are now coming down to a price for some First Timers to afford(Super Snows,RAPTORs,etc), I`m not calling anyone out its just how the Market works.

Thats just my two cents

 

[nats]

Red White and Blue Tri-Centennial geckos!!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Good question... and one I have been asking myself lately. I think there is always a possibility for a 'new' genetic morph to pop out of someone's colony, but it's not something I would hold my breath over.

As far as the 'market', geckos are not selling like they once did. There are a few reasons that come to mind. First of all, there are sooooo many geckos for sale right now the market is glut. Everybody and their uncle is breeding leopard geckos right now.

We will always have new people coming in to the hobby, and we will also see many people throw in the towel when they realize how much time and money goes into keeping these animals with little financial return.

 

[Okee Reps]

I'm not entirely sure how new morphs pop up but without the influx of new blood I think they will be few and far between. I like ball pythons so I listen to people talk a lot and from what I hear a lot of the morphs were brought in from Africa. Since leo's can't be brought in from their native origins it may be difficult. I'm no expert so I'm really just giving my opinion but time will tell.

The number of people working with geckos will probably not decrease. They are just too cool. Some of the people that were doing it for the money may reduce their collections or maybe even stop altogether but overall I think the hobby will only grow.

As for undesirable traits, they have to breed themselves out. No one in there right mind would continue to breed these traits because they wouldn't be able to sell the animal. So speaking purely from a financial stand point these traits won't increase or overwhelm the market. It's just not logical. If the bad traits couldn't be bred out the morph would lose its luster and eventually people would stop breeding them.

The economy is just so bad right now I think a lot of the fears are being projected into market. The whole reptile industry is down. I hear the ball python people saying the same things about their stuff. And it's not just the Reptile Industry businesses are closing left and right, banks folding. It's just not the best of times presently.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

The economy is just so bad right now I think a lot of the fears are being projected into market. The whole reptile industry is down.

This is probaby a b-i-g contributing factor as well.

 

[Stevie]

This is what I think:

1. Import/export of wild caught animals will be impossible because it'll be illegal to catch animals from the wild.
2. More ways to create leopardgeckos that will be snow white with red eyes. More and more different genetic ways to create this phenotype appear, so this will be only more in the future.
3. The true blue gecko will be created within a few years.
4. The really black gecko will be created.
5. Everyone will own enigma in one way or another
6. The prices of the different morphs will be more and more the same. The price will not be determined by morph, but by how beautiful the animal is: the more beautiful animal will be more expensive, no matter what the morph is.

Greets,

Stevie

 

[RogueMonkey]

stevie i agree on all but one #6, that not going to happen as long as there are breeders who price them high just because its the breeder name attached to the leo.

This is what I think:

1. Import/export of wild caught animals will be impossible because it'll be illegal to catch animals from the wild.
2. More ways to create leopardgeckos that will be snow white with red eyes. More and more different genetic ways to create this phenotype appear, so this will be only more in the future.
3. The true blue gecko will be created within a few years.
4. The really black gecko will be created.
5. Everyone will own enigma in one way or another
6. The prices of the different morphs will be more and more the same. The price will not be determined by morph, but by how beautiful the animal is: the more beautiful animal will be more expensive, no matter what the morph is.

Greets,

Stevie

 

[elphani]

This is what I am thinking about a lot for quite some time now!

It makes me very sad when I see that for some people a leopardgecko has to be a very special moph to be a cool gecko... and as soon there is a cooler morph it becomes almost worthless .
Of course I love the morphs and I am breeding them with much joy and am working on different projects too.
But during the last years, and I think this year there were more then the last years together, I saw so many people that are not really addicted to the animals but just addicted to the imagination to be a ''morph breeder''!

That just makes me sad!
For me important things in breading leopardgeckos are to keep the morphs healthy with breeding (breeding only ''perfect'' healthy animals), to avoid Inbreeding (of course sometimes its necessary to stabilize some morphs), to do research about them and get experience and the most important to make sure that every Baby get's a good new home where it is loved with all the heart! With that I hope that the future will be good for the Leopard geckos.

But I am really concerned when I see how many Leopardgeckos are for sale for example in Hamm (I only know the Eurpean market). There must be thousends of babies and older Geckos that won't find a new home.
I know it's the way the market works but it hurts to see that the prices drops that fast! Makes the geckos for some people less woth to keep them good...

Sorry about my pessimistic thougths, but I am really concerned...


Concerning new morphs... I just let me suprise what will pop up in the future - it's just a matter of time we will se some more special geckos :main_yes: !

......please excuse my bad english ! ........


Greets, Sandra

 

[Stevie]

We'll see.... In Holland this trend is already beginning to show.

Greets,

Stevie

 

[mynewturtle]

I don't know where I am going in regards to leopard geckos, but I think I am just going to work on 3 of my favourite projects after next year. I am really depressed about where the market is going a lot of the prices of animals I've spent 3 hard years working on some geckos that are now so low its very depressing. I hate haveing to sell quality well worked on animals for under priced but weather I want to or not I cannot keep hundreds of reptiles each year, I just can't.

As I said above I will just stick to my 3 favourite projects, raptor sunglow/tangerines, and snow combos. I will probaly produce 100 animals in total every year not huge but-load, but manageable.

I think I will be focusing on python / corn snake market for the future as marcia said everybody and there uncles are breeding leopard geckos right now makeing it hard for me, and other breeders that have spent years and years working on select animals to sell them for a good price that they deserve.

Now your probaly saying to yourself all I care about is the money out of this that it is a 'hobby'. This is a second income, small but still a second income. I breed all my feeders I do not spend much money on the geckos as I get all the supplies super cheap. So as much as I love leopard geckos I think I'll be takeing a 'break'

 

[Baoh]

...there are breeders who price them high just because its the breeder name attached to the leo.

I find this practice ridiculous (although effective to some degree in wooing customers).

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Thanks to everyone for your great responses. I would love to hear more, but everything I hear so far tells me what I think will happen in due time. On a side note, I truly appreciate the European breeders (Sandra and Stevie) contributing on this topic as the market there is often in it's own flux. And I have to agree with Marcia's point about alot of people perhaps getting out of Leos due to the "glut" in the market. There are just way too many Leos not finding homes these days, as Sandra also mentioned is happening in Europe (or at the Hamm show in particular). I wonder if the US breeders stopped shipping to the European market for a while, if it would continue to be such a problem. Time will tell.

 

[lytlesnake]

I suppose another random mutation such as the enigma could pop up somewhere, but with so many people breeding leos now, it seems like we would have seen it already. So I agree that you shouldn't hold your breath on that one.

One reason the market is flooded is that leopard geckos are very easy to breed, and they reach maturity quite early compared with many other reptiles. For example, the rule on breeding kingsnakes is generally 3 years of age, though some people do breed them at 2 years old if they're big enough. Snakes are not quite as easy to breed either. Sometimes a kingsnake will double or triple clutch, but most often the breeder is only getting one clutch per female per year, and the clutches are typically less than 12 hatchlings, which is the yearly average for leopard geckos.

Also the desire to produce morphs drives up the number of leos on the market dramatically. If one person is trying to breed a number of different morphs, they're gonna produce a lot of geckos. Just 5 females is going to give you around 40-60 geckos per year. Look at how many of us have large collections. If you breed all your females, you're gonna have a ton of hatchlings.

I think the best thing to do in the future for most people is to concentrate on producing a smaller number of high quality geckos. Unless you can sell a lot of them, you're better off that way.

 

[Grinning Geckos]

I think it's possible for new traits to pop up...but having new blood would really help. IMO, the morphs with consistent pricing are and will continue to be the line-breed traits. When there's no challenge (like the Enigma), there's nothing to support the higher prices as anyone could produce the morph easily...prices just naturally fall as more are produced. When you have to selectively breed over multiple generation for a certain look (like bold stripes, tangs, etc) then you're increasing the stability as there will always be stand-outs that call for higher prices due to the beauty and work that went into creating it.

The market is horrible for so many industries right now, it's not surprising that reptiles are taking a hit. Once the economy calms down, things will improve, but I think there will always be a problem with too many geckos because of how easy it is to breed.

 

[Dragoon Gecko]

At first, I'd like to thank Frank and all the others who have posted in this thread, and I appeceate that we can talk about such an important topic in this Forum.

Sandra (Elphani) and I have talked and thought about the future of the leopardgecko many, many times. In other GF posts, I have already written some points that were laying on my heart. And to be honest, what we both have seen in last time did not really gave us the impression that things have changed to the better ..

In the meantime, I have talked to alot of people here in europe about this topic, and most of the "old core" people tell you the same story..

Not only the leopardgecko market, but also the whole Leopardgecko scene has gone through some damatical changings in the last years:
Not keeping Leopardgeckos, but breeding them has become the hobby.

And this change leads to inofficial "contests" between the people:
In the younger generation, sometimes I get the impression that everybody wants to be now "better" then the other. And "better" is in most cases "newer"/"better selling" morphs, more eggs in the incubator, and more popular "friends" (I for one have my own definition of friendship, and for me a friendship must be earned from both sites, so the well-selected people I call my friends can count on me).

Many do not seem to care if they like what they breed, but only if it might sell better or lead to more attention in the forums -and this aim to attention is not the same as the good and natural pride in your new hatched Baby, or the joy in showing your favourite youngster!

(to compare: Sandra had 50 young this year, and I had 70- and we both were posting not very much this season in forums.. Alike, we both have not incubated over the half of our fertile eggs, while some first- or second time breeders alround the globe have incubated 150+ and more this year without thinking about in advance how to sell them..)

Especially this season I had the impression that in the newer "Generation", Leopardgecko Breeding has changed from an exceptional hobby to a way to push people's ego:
The gecko is often seen as genetic "material" or financial "jackpot", and not a living animal with his own caracter and needs- and that from people who say they breed as a "Hobby", and who say that they do not depend on income at all..

This point, in addition with the points of naive financial expectations we already discussed in "The reality of Leopardgecko Market", is leading our hobby to overflooding and in a direction that makes me thoughtful.
Especially when I see that in last time, some well-known and experienced breeders in Europe seem to be sad and are more retired and more observing then in the past.. I can imagine what might be going on in some of their heads, and I can truly understand their reasons, but I also miss the good old times when they were giving some black sheeps a good scolding from time to time.. I have been grown up in the breeders-scene with fish and aswell with geckos with the "old generation" of Hobbyist Breeders, and I'm very thankfull for it. I share their adjustments because I am confident that this is the right and only way. And fortunately I am not alone at all, so there is still hope for the future..

Regarding the future of my own leopardgeckos, I will incubate fewer eggs in the next seasons to make sure my babys are not dying after a season or two because the new owner find it not "worth" to take a 20 euro gecko to the vet. But that is just my way..
Thanks for reading :main_thumbsup: , and sorry for the long post..
/Rebecca

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Great Post Rebecca! Very well said IMHO.

 

[dprince]

A really bad economy, a large number of available geckos, and this being the "slow season" are all contributing factors to the slowdown of the market. Too many people just see "big money" in leopard geckos, which is laughable. I won't dispute, you can make an income, but it's menial considering the time and effort (and love and care) that goes into it. It still takes several years for most people to get out of their "start up" expense debt, and with such a volitile economy, a recession, bad news on wall street, incredible government spending, people losing their homes left and right, bankrupcy becoming almost commonplace - yeah, it's a bummer of a time for the reptile industry in general. Actually, any business that provides non necessities is going to feel a hit in this economy. It's the sucky truth. :main_thumbsdown:

 

[Homerx]

I think Rebecca touched on the pain point. Too many coming into the hobby looking for a quick buk. Then realizing its not there after producing animals they can't sell. Unfortunatley reptiles are being treated like a comodity. I keep them because its a hobby not an income. I have a day job and just love the challenge and education I recieve in breeding these little critters. I consider it a complimnet to my husbandry skills. I was recenly at an expo in Canada an noted afterwards in local fourums the lack of Leo's available. In an expo that use to be 80% leo. Crested gecko seem to be poised as the next fad gecko, followed by what I believe will be gargoyles. m2c

 

[eyelids]

A++++ post Rebecca! :main_thumbsup: :main_thumbsup: