This Upstart Needs Answers

[Sessh&Draco]

I plan to (over the span of about a year) start a breeding colony of my own. So, naturally, I need to have at least one male and female of each morph. But that brings a few questions to mind:

1) Should I choose 'the best and the brightest' for each morph or should I put my faith in a few Hets?

2)Which breeders are best for each morph? I know some have a greater supply of some morphs with 'mediocre' looks and some have great looking ones but few to choose from.

3) Should I only buy older and possible proven breeders or should I invest in some young'ins?

Thanks in advanced to anyone who r&r's.

 

[thekooliest]

I don't know much except rep-tails.com (sean) has the best tremper albinos...been breeding them for a long time and they keep getting better.
-Sam

 

[acpart]

You ask some very good questions, but I'm not sure it's really possible to answer in a way that says "do this and this and this". Opinions vary tremendously about what looks good, although obviously there is consensus about some breeders' geckos. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to start with high end, expensive geckos. Not only are you spending a lot of money initially for an enterprise that you (as far as I can tell from your post) have no guarantee you're going to enjoy, you are also setting yourself up to produce high end babies that should be sold for high end prices. It's not clear how many people will pay a lot of money for geckos from someone without a proven reputation, not to mention what the economy is doing for sales. My advice would be to pick a project that interests you and find geckos that you like the looks of from reputable breeders. If you have experience keeping geckos and are anxious to start next season, get adults or older juvis so they're ready. If you are not an experienced keeper, get younger juvies so you can learn about them as they grow and plan to breed the spring of 2010 --I know it sounds like a long time away, but it goes quickly and you will be in much better shape if you wait that long. Consider starting with 1.2 geckos and building your colony size and quality slowly. While you're waiting, think about what you need to breed, how you're going to feed a bunch of hatchlings, where you're going to house them and how you're going to sell them. In a more long-term way, think about where you're going to house a larger number of breeders you might have planned in the future (especially if you're going to be keeping the males separate from the females for all or part of the year) and how that will impact your space for hatchlings. THink about what you'll do when your females are ready to be retired from breeding. This is my 4th season and I"m finding that I still need to be considering all these things.

Good luck,

ALiza

 

[tuppence03]

hi, sorry to interrupt your conversation , I too am hopeing to buy a few geckos to start breeding but not on that scale we were thinking of 1 normal male with 1 albino female, 1 tangerine female and 1 other I was thinking of a dark phase or somthing. Would that be a good start? would that give us pretty coulours?

 

[acpart]

hi, sorry to interrupt your conversation , I too am hopeing to buy a few geckos to start breeding but not on that scale we were thinking of 1 normal male with 1 albino female, 1 tangerine female and 1 other I was thinking of a dark phase or somthing. Would that be a good start? would that give us pretty coulours?

I think nearly all the geckos are pretty in their own way, although I have hatched a few that just didn't appeal to me. If you don't already have the geckos, I would recommend using a male with something recessive, like albino, unless your future plan is to hatch both males and females and breed the siblings to each other. A normal gecko bred to an albino will yield normal looking geckos het for albino. If the male is the normal, then you'd have to hatch males and females and breed the mother to her son and/or the siblings. If the male is albino, you can breed one of the (female) babies back to the father and get some albinos without having to have and house another male. Otherwise, you'll get a variety of geckos with a different range of spotting and a range of tangerine, many to most of which can be very pretty but will most likely not be highly unusual.

Aliza

 

[Baoh]

I personally decided to choose a base morph for the majority of my projects. I picked one male that could be mated to a number of females that 1) could -for the most part- allow me to tell what the hatchlings are just by looking at them and not having to test breed, 2) would provide results that range from high-end $1000+ value animals down to animals that typically go for $100 to $200, and 3) would grant me *some* flexibility in adapting to changes in morph creations and market swings. I am trying to keep my groups small with relatively decent return as well as variety and still maintain quality. Parsimonious groups. As always, I expect significant depreciation of a given morph at any time, with standard morphs plateauing eventually for some degree of stability. Unless bad luck "helps" you and "hurts" others or a morph is a complicated combination, value can drop by half or more in one to three seasons due to gaining popularity combined with a complex of overproduction and impatience.

It seems like many folks figure if x morph was worth $1000 last season, then producing y hatchlings of x morph next season will yield y multiplied by $1000 and they will make a tidy profit. Unfortunately, there are a hundred people doing/thinking the same thing. Availability soars and starts to overtake demand as x morph floods the market. Mike Smallbreeder sunk a lot of his disposable income into his venture and now he is stuck with all of these geckos that aren't being sold but are continuing to chip away at his resources. So, what does he do? He does as most impatient or panicked would. He starts to drop prices. First by a little to just edge out the next competitor. That's how it starts. Then the snowball gains momentum and collects more destructive power as a domino effect occurs. By the middle of season two, that which started off at $1000 sells for $250 to $350 and the market can never resurrect the value x morph once held. Only exotic variants of x morph will continue to hold value for another season or so as their polygenic combinations take time to play with for your average breeder.

So, some take away points of use:

Try to get the most out of the least.

Try to work with what you like, but try to be original and help direct the market.

Being greedy hurts everybody, including yourself.

Have a range of prices. Not everyone can or wants to shell out a lot. The current economy makes this no easier on vendors or customers. Everybody is hurting in some capacity. Some just are not fully aware of it, like myself, because I build major cushions into my finances. By being judicious with my habits and taking time to repeatedly reconsider potential sources of unnecessary spending, things that could start causing major problems are avoided entirely and things which cannot be avoided have a diminished impact.

Do not undercut. Fixing prices will not maximize profits immediately, but will allow the entire community, individuals included, to reap greater profits over a greater number of seasons.

Don't produce heaps of any single thing unless perhaps normals or basic albino strains.

Be flexible.

Do not bank on a successful season. Expect the worst and hope that your results exceed your expectations.

Avoid impulse buys. This must be balanced, though, to avoid missing out on very good deals. Still, if I miss out on this deal or that deal, I haven't lost money. I just won't gain any from it down the road. Learn to distinguish what is wanted from what is needed.

Prepare to hold on to excesses. Animals which are better at reproduction at larger size gain some value as time goes on (to a point). Waiting for the right moment to sell is as important as waiting for the right moment to buy.

Rushing a job tends to negatively impact the quality of an operation.




Anyway, I hope these help. Food for thought.

 

[tuppence03]

wow! such alot to consider, I only wanted a hobby with a bit of income!!:main_laugh: What colours do you lot suggest? I thought a normal male would be best am I wrong?

 

[Sessh&Draco]

Wow, thanks every one! Lot's of great stuff to consider.

 

[tuppence03]

thanks i will keep those colours in mind

 

[acpart]

wow! such alot to consider, I only wanted a hobby with a bit of income!!:main_laugh: What colours do you lot suggest? I thought a normal male would be best am I wrong?

It's the male that's going to be bred to a bunch of females, so if you want a particular morph, it makes sense to have a male that has the genes for the morph. That way, the male is useful for a lot of females. Otherwise, the only thing the male provides in the pairing is normal genes.

If that doesn't make sense, let me know and I"ll try to explain it another way.

ALiza

 

[tuppence03]

i think i know what you mean the big daddy will carry most of the genes so if i am looking for somthing unusual i should consider somthing different i like the lighter colours maybe i should consider blizzards with albinos & tangerines,what do you think?

 

[acpart]

It's not that the male will carry most of the genes, but that you will probably breed several males to a female and also while you can house females in groups, males have to be housed separately. The more males you have, the more separate cages you will need.

My first project was: albino male with SHTCT female to get SHTCT hets (many of these looked very nice. Some were pastels, some were hypermelanistic and many had reduced spotting) and then breeding the hets back to the male. I have my first hybinos this year and am very happy with them.

If you get a male that has more than one genetic potential, you have more possibilities. For example, I have a male that is a redstripe, het for albino. Consequently, I have bred him to my stripe het albino and gotten albino stripes, to my tang and gotten even more tangy babies, and can also breed him to my snow to possibly get striped and/or tang snows.

Blizzards with albinos and tangs can be nice, just remember that you will need blizzard from both parents to get blizzards.

Aliza

 

[tuppence03]

thankyou for all your help. i bought the viv today it is 3 foot. my hubby is going to set it up for me this week then within the next few weeks i will be getting my stock i am still so undecided on colours yours sound wonderful by the way, i have instructed my suppier that i like blizzards, tannngerines @ jungles he knows i what i am looking for with unusual markings etc i know he wo`nt let me down as a trader he knows what he is looking for i can`nt wait to see what he gets me i have decided on 3 females and one male he said that was ok in that size viv is that right?

 

[acpart]

A 40 gallon sounds OK. I have 1.3 geckos in a 20 long with a 12"x12" upstairs to add more room.

Aliza

 

[tuppence03]

when i start breding, how soon should i separate the yougsters from the parents? or should`nt I put them back at all? if this is the case I will want another viv wo`nt I?

 

[acpart]

The youngsters should never be with the parents. Take the eggs out of the lay box when they're laid and put them in the incubator. When they hatch, they need their own enclosure either individually or pairs of hatchlings if they are the same size. As you prepare for breeding you need to think about where you're going to keep the hatchlings so you are prepared.

Aliza

 

[tuppence03]

can i keep them in tubs in a separate viv, say a 2 by 2 snake house with a bulb as i have an old one hanging around or will i need small vivs like them spider vivs?

 

[acpart]

can i keep them in tubs in a separate viv, say a 2 by 2 snake house with a bulb as i have an old one hanging around or will i need small vivs like them spider vivs?

Yes, you can do that. Many people keep their hatchlings (and adults too, sometimes) in racks. You can also just divide the viv with plexiglass and put them in there directly. I divide a front opening 30" long cage (glasscages.com) into 3 sections with plexiglass and put 1-2 hatchlings in each section.

Aliza

 

[tuppence03]

thankyou for all your help O! 1 more thing for now, i know this might be a little premature but how old must my hatchlings be before i can let them go to their new homes?
linda

 

[acpart]

About 6 weeks, or 15 grams is a good idea.

ALiza