Tremper cross with Bell

[thestack510]

You must have a lot of extra time on your hands.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

:main_no: No reason to? There are already to many Leopards on the market as it is, and by crossing two or more strains you are putting a strain on the albino market and possibly crashing it worse then it already is at. Its very unethical and has been attempted many times before.

Did we just have a conversation about this Nigel? LOL

 

[chazthaking2]

you may have but why not try it

 

[THE WHISPERER]

Just curious, what do you plan on doing with all the offspring? It could take you several generations to produce a bell tremper If you even knew what it looked like once you produced it. By the time you do your going to have a ton of geckos: Normals het for bell, normals het for tremper, normals het for both, trempers het for bell, bells het for tremper. do you plan on keeping and raising all those geckos for 20 years? Or are you going to sell them, in which you have no way to determine the hets. which in my opinion is where the unethical part comes in. Also consider the cost of breeding this project for 3-6+ years just to have a bunch of trempers and bells that are only going to sell for $25, if you can find someone willing to purchase a gecko with unknown genetics. I know the idea of producing a gecko with two albino strains that are visual seems really cool, but chances are after a few years into it you're probably going to see all the reasons you probably shouldn't have done it and end up abandoning the project.Once again what do you do with all those geckos?

 

[chazthaking2]

If it actually comes down to it then i guess I'll line breed most things don't come as luck, if it's meant for something to happen it will happen when it does. I just want to try what nobody else dares to. There's a quote by a man born around 40 A.D. named Epictitus. The quote was, "If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." It means no matter what other people think you will succeed if you believe in yourself. I wont go 20yrs into the mix of crossing outside albino ofsprings but I will give it a chance

 

[chazthaking2]

you know you are right about it and i guess it will always remain a mystery then

 

[THE WHISPERER]

. I wont go 20yrs into the mix of crossing outside albino ofsprings but I will give it a chance

I didn't think you would breed for 20 years. my question was:

do you plan on keeping and raising all those geckos for 20 years? Or are you going to sell them,

I just wanted to bring to your attention that off loading your offspring might be a little difficult. incase it was something you didn't consider.

 

[chazthaking2]

I had the whole idea worked out pretty much but I guess its just a pipe dream, the idea of it seems to upset a lot of people though which is crazy but i guess it is what it is

 

[THE WHISPERER]

I hope you don't think I'm upset over it. I just wanted to bring to your attention some of the possible bad points of what you were going to attept. I thought thats why you asked. personaly my only problem with it would be if you were selling the geckos and not telling people what their background was. Buying a gecko for a certain project then finding out the hard way there are different genes then what you needed would not be cool. Hope there's no hard feelings here cause thats not my intention. Good luck.:main_thumbsup:

 

[chazthaking2]

I know you had very good intentions but read though this thread and others and you'll see what I mean about some being upset, and I really do thank you and trust me I wouldn't want somebody to give me false genes that's why i kind of hate the whole possible het term its kind of upsetting. But if ever I do which now I highly doubt the world will be sure to know what genes each of my geckos hold. Thank You again!!

 

[THE WHISPERER]

:main_thumbsup:

 

[Gazz]

If it actually comes down to it then i guess I'll line breed most things don't come as luck, if it's meant for something to happen it will happen when it does. I just want to try what nobody else dares to. There's a quote by a man born around 40 A.D. named Epictitus. The quote was, "If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." It means no matter what other people think you will succeed if you believe in yourself. I wont go 20yrs into the mix of crossing outside albino ofsprings but I will give it a chance

It won't take no where near 20 years:main_laugh:.When you've bred your Normals HET Talbino,Balbino to gether rase them to breeding standeds.Keep all the albinos.Then put the one that look Talbino to Balbino.And the ones that look Balbino to Talbino.Your looking for the one that give a 100% of the opisit albino it's been bred to.That is the Talbinobalbino.

Talbinobalbino X Talbino = Talbino HET Balbino.
Talbinobalbino X Balbino = Balbino HET Balbino.

 

[chazthaking2]

so you think it is possible and worth a try?

 

[Nigel4less]

so you think it is possible and worth a try?

Gazz likes to get a rise out of the Forum

 

[chazthaking2]

oh so dont mind him huh lol

 

[Lordoftheswarms]

People don't do it because it's unethical. there is no reason to breed to 2 strains of albino to each other. There are more then enough of both strains out there to not cross them together.

Just because you don't have a reason to do something does not make it unethical. For something to be unethical, it means that there is a morality or ethics that is being violated, something about it causes suffering, or imposes on another. In this case, someone just wants to create a new morph, there is no reason why it should not be done. It is not unethical, your just making that up.

 

[Nigel4less]

Just because you don't have a reason to do something does not make it unethical. For something to be unethical, it means that there is a morality or ethics that is being violated, something about it causes suffering, or imposes on another. In this case, someone just wants to create a new morph, there is no reason why it should not be done. It is not unethical, your just making that up.

And your just being Ignorant... If someone wants to get known in this community, they should produce Beautiful, Healthy, High Quality Geckos. Not Create a new morph, especially by crossing two albino strains.

 

[Baoh]

Just because you don't have a reason to do something does not make it unethical. For something to be unethical, it means that there is a morality or ethics that is being violated, something about it causes suffering, or imposes on another. In this case, someone just wants to create a new morph, there is no reason why it should not be done. It is not unethical, your just making that up.

The risk is only in releasing these as something they are not into the general market. Otherwise, people can do whatever they like, I agree. I think people should avoid the mixing of these albino varieties for the sake of classification and screwing up bloodlines for others, but it would not hurt anyone if he kept all of his offspring to himself.

 

[THE WHISPERER]

And your just being Ignorant... If someone wants to get known in this community, they should produce Beautiful, Healthy, High Quality Geckos. Not Create a new morph, especially by crossing two albino strains.

Wow, little harsh don't you think Nigel, I understand how these things can upset a person but just straight calling someone ignorant seems a little rude. I also have to disagree with someone having to produce beautiful or high quality geckos to be known in this community. I don't see why a person that owns a low grade normal leo that just wants to provide good care for it has to be considered less of a person in this community. As much as I disagree with crossing albino strains I'm not under standing your comment on "Not creating a new morph". I can't tell you how many new morphs I've seen pop up in the last few years, and it defenetly didn't hurt anyones statis on this forum producing them. I too get angry at some of the things I read on here but it just seems like it could be put a different way.

 

[Nigel4less]

Wow, little harsh don't you think Nigel, I understand how these things can upset a person but just straight calling someone ignorant seems a little rude. I also have to disagree with someone having to produce beautiful or high quality geckos to be known in this community. I don't see why a person that owns a low grade normal leo that just wants to provide good care for it has to be considered less of a person in this community. As much as I disagree with crossing albino strains I'm not under standing your comment on "Not creating a new morph". I can't tell you how many new morphs I've seen pop up in the last few years, and it defenetly didn't hurt anyones statis on this forum producing them. I too get angry at some of the things I read on here but it just seems like it could be put a different way.

Well now-a-days it seems everyone wants to be in the "Spotlight". Everyone wants to be someone, if someone asks "What Morphs would you want to buy" and then asks about crossing two mutations, etc etc. It sounds very suspicious to me. I don't know either Lordoftheswarms or Chaz, and I don't doubt that they provide excellent care of their animals.

People don't seem to realize that the market is absolutely FLOODED with animals, whether its Leopard Gecko, Ball Pythons, or Cornsnakes. And the problem is because too many people are breeding them, I think if everyone slowed down with breeding and just enjoyed their animals the market would be in less of a flux, its so frustrating when I see someone go from 1 animal to 40 in a year.... End of that as I do not need a Warning

But the point is there is a reason these things aren't done, the Rainwater and Tremper strains have been around for almost 10 years now. There is a reason there has NOT been a double homozygous animal produced... because it leads to the destruction of the market as a whole.

For example if people already have a hard enough time telling what strain of Albino their Leopard Gecko is ,what happens when we get to the point that we say.... "Well its possible it could be a LasTremBell". Whats the point?


End Rant.