TSE/Top Shelf Exotics/Chris Johnson Inquiry

[Fedawg]

IF chris sold fake hets, I'll hold the noose and slap the horse.

So far there is not adequate evidence to prove that he did sell hets that are normals.

Stupid speculation by idiots with nothing better to do than fan flames is just plain malicious. That maliciousness is all some have to get that attention they so desperately need, and THAT is one of the main problems with this ENTIRE industry; people making accusations or, EVEN WORSE, jumping on a bandwagon that has lots of riders JUST because one or two big mouths are on board, but doing NOTHING positive at all, and in this case in particular, merely seeking to further damage and degrade an already bad and WELL PUBLICIZED ordeal.

I have to agree.

IS it me , or is this industry filled with OVERNIGHT EXPERTS????????

I see it on all forums. One day someone is asking basic animal care questions , the next day they are an expert on morphs and mutations , and have all sorts of inside info on new morphs and mutations , like they are special and have some crazy connections(talking about the BP communinty , but im sure it goes on with Leos too)

To top it off , these "experts" start talking to people with an attitude.

The best part is when a real , or someone with actual experience and knowledge , comes and puts them in their place.

A little knowledge is VERY dangerous. Look at Tosha McClintok

 

[silentjohn]

I'm pretty sure everyone that bought "hets" from TSE is encouraged to fill out the deposition and at least add your name to the list even if the animals arrived healthy and happy. may end up being a moot point but it can't hurt anything to try

The het people have no cause to fill out the deposition. The deposition is for a criminal case involving people who paid for a product and didn't receive anything. All those who have received anything, hets or otherwise, even if they were tick infected and had diseases normally associated with WC, have at this point no actionable case, nor any laws actually broken. The receiving sick animals, and other claims will most likely be civil. The hets may at some time be a criminal case, but that would probably be another year at the least, so enough breedings have taken place that there can be reasonable "proof" that there was fraud involved, if no one is able to produce any visuals. There is somebody keeping a list of people who purchased hets, and people are encouoraged to join up, but at this time it is just a list to keep track, and not an official police action.

 

[dizzmaldan420]

I'm just going by what I read over there..maybe I mis-read it.

 

[wilomn]

I'm just going by what I read over there..maybe I mis-read it.

Ahhhh there lies the rub.

You read it over there so it must be true.

It's ok for a general rule, as most of what is said on the BOI is truthful or exposed as not being truthful.

However, there are some over there, like normis, varnyard and chamco and of course knobby, who INSIST that THEY and only THEY know what someone else not only did but intended to do in the future.

You have to know the players to get a good read of something as major as TSE and Chris.

Non-facts were put out there as SOLID FACT and it simply wasn't so.The characters purporting to have intimate knowledge of, for what other kind would enable one man to know another man's, one he has never met no lees, thinking and intentions, were merely inflating thier own egos. Basically, they told what at best can be called a unknown and at wrost, if it turns out he did NOT sell normals, as libel. Heck, if I were Chris and as malicious as those guys made him out to be, I'd pay people to say they bought from me and then sue each and everyone of those guys. I'm sure he's pondered it already though and may well have it in the works.

I'm as quick as the next guy and quicker than many to hang a man that deserves it. BUT, there really should be an abundance of proof before doing so and there simply isn't any. As yet.

 

[dizzmaldan420]

Yeah think I got mixed up. The het list is something entirely different. Sorry.

 

[dizzmaldan420]

Wes, I really don't have any stake in the situation or know anyone well enough to know what's true or not. I'm not saying what's been said over there is all legit..I was really just trying to be helpful.

 

[wilomn]

I know and I don't mean to seem to be coming down on you.

It's just a messed up situation that was escalated far beyond what was necessary by big mouths flapping. Some of those mouths should have, no I dare say DID, know better than to make SPECULATIONS.

Are you Matt's brother?

 

[dizzmaldan420]

It's cool man..didn't think you were coming down on me. Just clarifying my motives. It's definitely one big F'd up situation for all involved and I'm glad to be on the outside looking in on this one. I don't have any brothers but I've been wondering if matt and I aren't related somehow. Some of my family on the graybeal side has lived in west virginia

 

[Jedi Master Bruce]

My respect level for Webbie just got upped quite a bit:

Quote from Fauna:

Administrator


Join Date: Feb 2002
Age: 55
Posts: 5,612
Name : Rich Zuchowski

Trader Rating: (10) Do you know what REALLY pisses me off? Last year, Chris Johnson and I got into some really major head banging. I'm sure those posts are still here somewhere, but the result of that was that I got finally pissed off enough that I just outright banned him. Refunded his money for his advertising and paid membership and told him to hit the road. Well as things later transpired, I felt that perhaps I had made a mistake in judgement concerning him and his actions and because of this, I lifted the ban and allowed him to come back. I allowed him to continue on here when I had had the opportunity to STOP him in his tracks from using this site to lure unsuspecting people FROM here, seeing all the positive indicators about him, to doing business with him. Yeah, hindsight, I realize, but still, I DID have the opportunity to stop him at least partially. Of course, this is all just my opinion based on the current status of events surrounding him.

Now, how many people could possibly have been saved from getting burned (in my opinion) from this guy if I had kept him banned from this site? His good guy certification would not have been here, his Trader Rating and karma rating would not have been on the front page of the forums. His name in every post would have shown PLAINLY that he was BANNED from here, sending a warning sign to everyone that something just was not all peaches and cream about him. Yes, certainly with the high karma rating, GGC poll and high Traders Rating a lot of other people made mistakes in judgement as well, but that certainly does not make me feel any better about MY mistake.

My mistake in judgement may have hurt some good people here. I failed these people with what I had intended his site to be used for.

I know it may happen again, because I am NOT psychic and I am not perfect in my judgements. But my INTENT is to try hard not to let that happen again.
__________________
WebSlave

 

[Jungle Habitats Plastics]

Looks like the Pitty me trains starting again ,

soory for the off topic post

 

[Jedi Master Bruce]

That's OK. Interesting to think about.

 

[SPJ]

Figure I'd post about Chris and the bullseye animals he STOLE from James and Vickie Bryan of BryanReptiles since I have been working on my own bullseye project for the past few years.

The quote below is from James Bryan.

Since the Bullseye trait originated with us I wanted to make a public statement as to the projects status since TSE has gone down in flames.

In 2005 we sent the majority of our Bullseye and Bullseye Pastel to Chris Johnson at Top Shelf Exotics. These were in trade for "het" animals that never arrived and the rest as they say is history.

I have made a disclaimer on our website that the animals we sent are MIA and that we are no longer advertising this trait. We would rather take the loss of our project than have the project and obviously therefore our name dragged down the toilet

My apologies to Steve for mentioning your name to Chris when discussing the project initially. I want to say publically that Steve had no dealings in the TSE connection to the project. We trusted Chris as many others did. And subsequently did some trading with him. Chris mentioned Steve's name in this. We did not.

If anyone has any info on the whereabouts of the STOLEN snakes, please contact James so he can hopefully retrieve his animals.

 

[wilomn]

Figure I'd post about Chris and the bullseye animals he STOLE from James and Vickie Bryan of BryanReptiles since I have been working on my own bullseye project for the past few years.

The quote below is from James Bryan.




If anyone has any info on the whereabouts of the STOLEN snakes, please contact James so he can hopefully retrieve his animals.

New.
Interesting.
Pertinant.

NOT regurgitated, copied or pasted merely for entertainment.

Good job Steve.

Thanks.

 

[RaiQuee]

Can someone tell me where I can get myself on the het list?

 

[Fedawg]

Can someone tell me where I can get myself on the het list?

If you dont mind, what kinda"hets" did you buy?

 

[fieryrose]

Wow, I have figured this for years as Top Shelf is good friends with Sal and has been for many years. I believe, though been out of that loop for a bit, that they even live in the same town now or did.
If someone is associated with Sal I pretty much stay away.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Well... Nicholai posted on another forum that Kelli and I wound up with TSE's Mack Snows when Chris bailed, and he felt we should take the money for them and repay all the folks that got burned. He was serious. Not only is that a bald-faced lie, but borders on libel.

... Just thought you all would like to know how CAREFUL we need to be when 'speculating' about this kind of stuff. It could get you into serious trouble.

 

[Jedi Master Bruce]

Can someone tell me where I can get myself on the het list?

NorthamExotics
Paid Participant





Join Date: May 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 47
Name : Jason Northam

Trader Rating: (0) Het Cases vs. Non-receipt of animals

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Inv. Brown indicated that ANYONE who has purchased hets should fill out a deposition and get it to him ASAP as this case may drag on and it is important to get your name attached to the situation as soon as possible. It will be up to the courts to decide how many breedings are required before fraud can be substantiated. Also, it may prompt the court to require Johnson to provide proof of breeding stock origins, possibly causing his case to crumble.

-Jason

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Albany New York
Age: 43
Posts: 1
Name : Mark Brown

Trader Rating: (0) New York State Police and Top Shelf Exotics

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The New York State Police has opened a investigation regarding the activities of Chris Johnson/TopShelfExotics. This investigation is in conjuction with the IFCC.

To be considered a victim of Johnson/TopShelfExotics you must meet the following requirements:
1) Victimized in the last 5 years.
2) Can provide some proof of payment to Johnson/TopShelfExotics for merchandise(canceled check, receipt of eft, wire transfer, paypal, etc.)
3) Be willing to complete a deposition regarding your dealings with Johnson/TopShelfExotics, have it notarized and return it to the New York State Police. A blank deposition will be provided free of charge to you via email. Takes a few minutes to complete.
4) You have not received reimbursement, full or partial, from Johnson/Top ShelfExotics. Any reimbursement received from Johnson/TopShelfExotics disqualifies you as a victim in a criminal court in New York and you must proceed in a civil court.

If you meet the above requirements and wish to see Johnson/TopShelfExotics prosecuted in a criminal court please email me at [email protected]. There is NO guarantee of compensation after a verdict is rendered.

Inv. Mark A. Brown
New York State Police

 

[RaiQuee]

Okay, I'm pretty stupid when it comes to legal junk, what is this deposition? Is it just a letter stating what I have, when I got it and etc.

We bought albino hets, we still have documents from TSE including the photographic guarantee to be hets that he gave us. It is signed by Chris himself..

 

[Jedi Master Bruce]

I think a deposition is, in simple terms, your statement of what happened. I would just e-mail the detective at [email protected] and ask him any questions you can think of. He should be glad to answer you, and then you can decide what to do next.