TSE/Top Shelf Exotics/Chris Johnson Inquiry

[Jedi Master Bruce]

From fauna: It looks like he even sold his "hets" overseas:

Copenhagen Reptiles
Registered User


Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 6
Name : Ricky Sean Jorgensen

Trader Rating: (0) Thanks Rich for letting me post here.

As stated earlier in this thread I have a het pied female bred to a het pied male From TSE, she should lay in a few weeks.
I also bought 1.2 het albinos from Chris and the one female is with eggs also...the sad part is that i sold the het albinos to my friend...it was kinda hard explaining him that they probably are just normals....the snakes are from late 2004..

Since i was an overseas customer (Live in Denmark) im not really sure how to press charges against Chris....?
Any suggestions ?

If Chris has scammed people with fake hets from the very beginning (2004) im sure we can get him to court if we can locate him.

I spend several thousands dollars but no way i will go quiet into the night!

 

[Jedi Master Bruce]

If Chris Johnson/TSE ripped you off now is the time to contact detective Brown [email protected] From fauna:

DSsuper92
Paid Participant



Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 21
Name : David Schroeder

Trader Rating: (1) Investigator Brown informed me today that he needs 10 depsoitions before he can move on with a felony fraud case. We are only at 7 depositions right now so if you know of someone that has been taken by Chris but they haven't turned one in yet please mention it to them.

I also forwarded him the link about the geckos and he is hopefully going to confirm if that is Chris or not for us.

Later,
Dave Schroeder

 

[Gregg M]

The hets may at some time be a criminal case, but that would probably be another year at the least, so enough breedings have taken place that there can be reasonable "proof" that there was fraud involved, if no one is able to produce any visuals.

In all honesty, I doubt there will be any action one can take with the hets at all because there is no guarantee with genetics as far as percentages go.... It is possible to breed hets together and not get any visuals for a few seasons.... It is not probable but it is possible.... Also, genes can mutate and so on.... Plus, who can be 100% sure that the animals in question are infact not producing visuals??? It boils down to a breeders word against the word of Chris.... I ofcourse am not doubting anyones claim but there can be reasonable doubt in the eyes of a jury or judge given the facts of genetics and their unpredictablity plus the fact that a few buyers may or may not be truthful....

It is unfortunate but I do not think much can be done for the people that actually received animals, hets or not.....

 

[nora]

ok.. I need to add my 2 cents because there's some information that doesnt sit right with me.....

Firstly, why is a NY State Police cyber-terrorism unit investigator handling an investigation that should be presided over by the NYSDEC (Dept of Enviromental Conservation aka Fish & Game)??
Mark Brown is from the NY State Police Troop G div. which covers cental areas of NY (which includes albany). If complaints were to be filed with NY State Police, then the offices in Albany should have refered people to Troop A which covers far western counties of NY...and TSE is/was located in Erie County...

Even so... any kind of criminal investigation complaint should be reported to the NY BCI division......but then again, people would be asked to file their complaints with the DEC regional offices in buffalo (which is Region 9) as well.....

oh and what's an investigator doing giving out a personal email address?????

 

[nora]

oh and this can be concidered a civil matter in the State's eyes until it has been proven that criminal misdeeds have been brought forth and proven.

 

[LadyGecko]

I have been sort of following this whole unpleasant story since it began and the one question that I have is about the HET issue
Would it legally make a difference as to how the snakes that were sold as het for "whatever" were represented -were they represented as take X snake and breed it to Y an you will get Z or were they represented/promoted as take X and breed it to Y and you have a ??? % chance of getting Z?
I understand the variables that are in question when working with hets for anything -but are guarantees offered for normal looking animals that are supposed to carry the genes for desired traits?
I am not very familiar about guarantees offered (if there are in fact any offered) on HET animals-especially those ranging in the thousands of dollars in price and I am just curious as to how that whole thing works or if there even is a guarantee attached to any of these animals

Sandy

 

[Ian S.]

The het people have no cause to fill out the deposition. The deposition is for a criminal case involving people who paid for a product and didn't receive anything. All those who have received anything, hets or otherwise, even if they were tick infected and had diseases normally associated with WC, have at this point no actionable case, nor any laws actually broken. The receiving sick animals, and other claims will most likely be civil. The hets may at some time be a criminal case, but that would probably be another year at the least, so enough breedings have taken place that there can be reasonable "proof" that there was fraud involved, if no one is able to produce any visuals. There is somebody keeping a list of people who purchased hets, and people are encouoraged to join up, but at this time it is just a list to keep track, and not an official police action.

The information above is false.(according to officer Brown) I have been in much contact with detective Brown. Although it will take more than 1 or 2 people with (poss.false hets) to prove out the fact that the hets are fakes, all of whom have had any attempted fraudulant, or suspicious behavior from Chris Johnson can and should fill out the deposition if there was any such intentions of fraud being committed. I was uncertain of my case so I asked him pls see E-mail from officer brown.

officer Brown -
It is important as it shows a scheme to defraud his victims. The deposition can also be faxed to me at 518-485-6070. Thanks.

Ian Schindler <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Mark,
I had a question regaurding the forms you sent me. As I said in the past, I was refunded my money from Chris Johnson after I went public after getting the same run around for three months, as all the other folks have. I guess my question is, wether or not my circumstance would be of importance to your case? If so I'll fill it out and send it on in. I'd hate to send you that proverbial "one more piece of useless paper work" to go over.
Thanks for your time,
Ian Schindler



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Brown <[email protected]>




I have received three depositions back with sufficient copies of transaction records - Goskowicz, Dougherty, Schroeder - I am here for another three years at least until I can retire - if you want to take that long to complete and send in your deposition that's fine with me, but might not be so fine with the others wishing to see Chris prosecuted. If there are any problems with completing the depositions contact me. The sooner we can get this done the faster I can have Chris picked up. Thanks.



Inv Mark A. Brown

518-457-0652 (collect calls accepted)

 

[Ian S.]

ok.. I need to add my 2 cents because there's some information that doesnt sit right with me.....

Firstly, why is a NY State Police cyber-terrorism unit investigator handling an investigation that should be presided over by the NYSDEC (Dept of Enviromental Conservation aka Fish & Game)??
Mark Brown is from the NY State Police Troop G div. which covers cental areas of NY (which includes albany). If complaints were to be filed with NY State Police, then the offices in Albany should have refered people to Troop A which covers far western counties of NY...and TSE is/was located in Erie County...

Even so... any kind of criminal investigation complaint should be reported to the NY BCI division......but then again, people would be asked to file their complaints with the DEC regional offices in buffalo (which is Region 9) as well.....

oh and what's an investigator doing giving out a personal email address?????

I myself was very thrown off as well, by this!! I have only talked to him through E-mail.

 

[silentjohn]

I don't think it's neccessarily a F&G case. The alleged crimes Chris is being accussed of are things like fraud, etc. while animals are what he was selling they are not really the "direct" crime, like for instance selling animals contrary to state laws, violating CITES, etc. Same with getting caught mailiing a snake through USPS, the feds would be busting you, not F&G.

 

[PaulSage]

Steve, unless you have written communication detailing the "favor", I doubt there's much you could do legally to seek any compensation.

(By the way, you need to have your full name attached to your posts in this section, otherwise it may be deleted.)

 

[Russ S]

(By the way, you need to have your full name attached to your posts in this section, otherwise it may be deleted.)

Everyone that posts in this section needs to have their full name either in their signature, their profile, or in the post. Thank you for your cooperation.

Forum Rules

 

[SteveB]

Steve, unless you have written communication detailing the "favor", I doubt there's much you could do legally to seek any compensation.

(By the way, you need to have your full name attached to your posts in this section, otherwise it may be deleted.)

What, do you think I'm an idiot? I have a written contract. Those animals were quite valuable, you know the kind of projects I was working on.


Steven Beckerman
E2MacPets

 

[PaulSage]

What, do you think I'm an idiot? I have a written contract. Those animals were quite valuable, you know the kind of projects I was working on.


Steven Beckerman
E2MacPets

You didn't mention having a written contract, so whether or not I think you're an idiot is irrelevant. And no, I don't know what projects you were working on.