TWO NEW BABIES ( and some questions...)

[ofek]

Hey guys, I hatched these two about a week and a half ago.
the first is a mack snow 100% het. blizzard from Lori (mack snow het. blizzard) X Athena (blizzard). What do you think about this guy? his colors are very light, aren't they?

 

[ofek]

And the other guy is from Hades (normal) X Amy (normal het. blizzard 66% het bell).
he turned out jungley, but his tail is weird...it looks like its bitten, only it's not...he was hatched like that...

 

[ofek]

Any idea why the colors of the 1st are so bright and why the 2nd has this funky tail?
thanks!

 

[Tony C]

The first looks like a pretty typical snow. The second should be culled due to the tail deformity.

 

[ofek]

The first looks like a pretty typical snow. The second should be culled due to the tail deformity.

thank you. The first snow I hatched was much darker in the black parts, so it was a little strange to me... about the other little one, he's so cute I'll keep him as a pet...

 

[acpart]

I recently hatched a pair of snows, clutchmates, where one was dark black and the other a paler black. I'm assuming that the paler one will probably lose most of its spots and that's probably the same with yours.

Aliza

 

[ofek]

Thank you Aliza!
(btw, how are you? )

 

[mainelygeckos]

The first looks like a pretty typical snow. The second should be culled due to the tail deformity.

Why? It is perfectly healthy other then the tail..does it have any less right to live then one born perfect? Bred no, but pet yes! Ofek they are both gorgeous! congrats

 

[ofek]

Why? It is perfectly healthy other then the tail..does it have any less right to live then one born perfect? Bred no, but pet yes! Ofek they are both gorgeous! congrats

Thank you Donna!
I 100% agree. the little guy is sooo adorable...

 

[Tony C]

It has nothing to do with "rights" and everything to do with being a responsible breeder and practicing good genetic management.

 

[thegeckoguy23]

The first looks like a pretty typical snow.

+1

The second should be culled due to the tail deformity.

The tail deformity is fine for the gecko unless being bred is what i herd and i think it should live just not be bred IMO


Jake

 

[ofek]

It has nothing to do with "rights" and everything to do with being a responsible breeder and practicing good genetic management.

In order to be a responsible breeder, the only thing required is to NOT let it breed. There is NO reason at all to kill it, and since it's a living creature- it does have rights. That is why we do not treat these animals as objects.

 

[Taquiq]

In order to be a responsible breeder, the only thing required is to NOT let it breed. There is NO reason at all to kill it, and since it's a living creature- it does have rights. That is why we do not treat these animals as objects.

But what if something happens and you are forced to sell it off? You have no control over the next owner if you do sell it off. What if he sells it but forgets to tell the buyer to not breed it? It is best to cull in situations like this when they first hatch, not let it grow up and get attached to it.

 

[Tony C]

In order to be a responsible breeder, the only thing required is to NOT let it breed. There is NO reason at all to kill it, and since it's a living creature- it does have rights. That is why we do not treat these animals as objects.

If you really believe that after the recent discussions on culling, then you should not be breeding.

 

[ofek]

If you really believe that after the recent discussions on culling, then you should not be breeding.

Well, I haven't read the recent discussions on culling, but either way- for now I think it is very wrong to cull a creature just because it cannot be a breeder. If that makes you think I shouldn't be a breeder- too bad...

Originally Posted by Taquiq
But what if something happens and you are forced to sell it off? You have no control over the next owner if you do sell it off. What if he sells it but forgets to tell the buyer to not breed it? It is best to cull in situations like this when they first hatch, not let it grow up and get attached to it.

The market where I live is very different from the one in the USA, and therefore, if for some reason I cannot keep it- there are many many ppl that live close and I know perfectly well who can take care of it and will never breed it. so no- there is no chance it will be bred anyway and therefore there is no reason to kill it.

 

[Tony C]

The market where I live is very different from the one in the USA, and therefore, if for some reason I cannot keep it- there are many many ppl that live close and I know perfectly well who can take care of it and will never breed it. so no- there is no chance it will be bred anyway and therefore there is no reason to kill it.

That is the problem, you are willing to release deformed animals onto the open market instead of doing the right thing and culling them. From what I understand leopard geckos are uncommon in Israel, the temptation to take free animals and breed them will be too much to resist and they can do a lot of damage to an already small gene pool.

 

[ofek]

That is the problem, you are willing to release deformed animals onto the open market instead of doing the right thing and culling them. From what I understand leopard geckos are uncommon in Israel, the temptation to take free animals and breed them will be too much to resist and they can do a lot of damage to an already small gene pool.

I totally agree. The thing I disagree with, is the fact you have decided I am willing to release deformed animals onto the open market. Well- I'm not. As mentioned before I will not let someone I don't know well to have it and it will not be bred. You claim that the temptation is to great because of the small market- that is the reason why there is no logic in selling it. there aren't many ppl in there who are looking for leopards and there is no pressure to sell it anyway. moreover- as one of the few people in Israel that are taking this VERY seriously, I will not, by any case, harm the gene pool or the efforts to make Israel a place with beautiful, healthy leopard geckos (at least) as the USA is.

 

[Keith N]

That is the problem, you are willing to release deformed animals onto the open market instead of doing the right thing and culling them. From what I understand leopard geckos are uncommon in Israel, the temptation to take free animals and breed them will be too much to resist and they can do a lot of damage to an already small gene pool.

And everday an enigma that spins circles and hollars at the moon is posted for sale on breeder sites all over, but that is o.k. instead of culling them out they say it has enigma syndrome and still sell it for $75

 

[Tony C]

And everday an enigma that spins circles and hollars at the moon is posted for sale on breeder sites all over, but that is o.k. instead of culling them out they say it has enigma syndrome and still sell it for $75

I don't know why you have to bring Enigmas into every culling debate, I think it is pretty universally accepted among serious hobbyists that spinners should be culled. The problem is more with the "pet" crowd than the hobbyists...

 

[Keith N]

I don't know why you have to bring Enigmas into every culling debate, I think it is pretty universally accepted among serious hobbyists that spinners should be culled. The problem is more with the "pet" crowd than the hobbyists...

Its a common fact some people have a problem culling. Its an attachment/parenting and compassion thing. Its been discussed for some time and probably will be long after all of us are gone. You, I and many others know when its time to cull and have no problem doing so. Our compost pile has seen its share or reptile babies that had to be culled. It's just its almost like a double edged sword with people seeing "has enigma syndrome" and nothing being done with them and then to get blasted for wanting to keep a mentally perfect leo with a tail stub.Its just and observation of this and past discussions