Very annoyed...

[LCReptiles]

Okay as the title says I am annoyed. I do not feel like posting why I am annoyed only to see it get 50 views and no responses and get even more annoyed. If you are interested in discussing gecko feeding behavior and my groups lack of it, feel free to email me at [email protected]

 

[FBody355]

You should post it here anyways! Sometimes I like to read what others post just in case something similair ever happens to me and my geckos, but I usually have nothing useful to say so I don't post.

 

[LCReptiles]

Ok FBody, here goes. I started Lost Colony in 2004... I had my racks, I had my own reptile room, I had thermostats and timers... I had a good setup. Unfortunately at that time I didn't put much stock into my animals, I just had normals (which there is nothing wrong with) and I was attending shows... FIRE in Orlando, I can't remember which one but a big on in Raleigh, NC.. it was a blast. However I thought partying and drinking was more important so my geckos didn't get the attention they deserved and I gave all the stuff to my brother and/or sold it. Fast forward 8 years and here I am nearly 37 years old in college studying Wildlife Science and doing what I have always loved, and that includes working on putting my company back together. Like most breeders I have no disillusion of becoming rich, I just love my animals and seeing what awesome morphs we can all come up with... however this time hasn't been quite so easy. I did choose this time to invest in my animals, I have FANTASTIC animals from Enigmatic Reptiles (with some new AFT's coming from ER and Gecko Babies coming soon). I am working with the Acid Stripe line that Travis Kuhse has been gracious enough to allow me to work on but this time things are coming together quite so easily. I moved to the western part of Virginia and didn't anticipate the weather, so combined with having a shi**y rheostat on my rack and living in the middle of nowhere dealing with power outages every winter storm that passed my geckos had a tough winter. I spent 1 entire night with them in my car, with the engine running and heater on just to keep them warm. I have ordered a new rack, I have ordered a thermostat, I have moved and while my gals and guy are healthy they just are not adjusting as well as I'd like them to. I have historically fed mealworms but unless they are moving the geckos ignore them... so I recently also invested in starting a Dubai colony. Today I tried roaches just to see how they'd take to them and boy did they get interested.... only after 10 minutes of watching them strike numerous times and catching nothing before getting bored and turning away I was again left frustrated. Due to the changes I have all but given up on producing any clutches this season, the health of my gang comes first and I want them eating well and putting on weight. I just don't understand why they are having such a hard time catching their food, or what else to do about it. I've had them almost a year and they are barely 40g except for my 1 female which is 85g but Travis had already bred her so she was bigger.

For those TLR: I'm frustrated things aren't working out the way I want... and needed to vent.

 

[lora01fl]

We all get frustrated with how things are going with feeding, breeding, health, etc...vent away:main_thumbsup:

Have you tried flipping the dubia over on their backs? I don't feed with them (illegal here and can't get them), but have heard that it makes them easier for the gecko to catch. We have some that miss a lot and get frustrated too. It seems just as frustrating to us because we just want them to eat!

We feed meal and super worms. We use the TSK worm feeders and keep meal worms in the bowls at all times. We then hand feed (long tweezer thing) super worms every evening. Not every gecko wants a super every evening, but the juvies will eat several and the adults may eat one or two. Some adults will only eat every few days. Everyone get fresh water in a clean bowl every evening too. Takes about an 1.5 hours to spot clean, feed and water 38 of them, longer if they are being picky or I feel the need to play with them. We dump meal worms that haven't been eaten into a breeder tub and feed them. Not all of the meal worms will live because they have been dusted so that tub gets cleaned out frequently.

Travis at ER is spectacular to work with and I'm sure you've chatted with him about this. It's always nice to have other opinions though.

Have you had fecals done on them to rule out worms? Stress will sometimes bring up something that had been dormant.

We have one yearling leo that is long and lean, I'd have to weigh him for a current weight, but it has been hard to get him to 40g. He eats and is vet checked healthy, he just won't put on the weight I think he should.

I'm sure you've heard and or tried all of the above, but wanted to take the time to respond to you anyway.

Kudos to you for wanting their health to come before anything else! It sounds like you are doing your very best and things will come together for you.

 

[OnlineGeckos]

Crap happens, things don't always work out with breeding. You'll have a slow season sometimes, and sometimes things just seem to fall apart. They are animals and are unpredictable. I too use the escape proof mealworm dishes. Those are great for feeding, it'll allow your geckos to catch them and eat them when they want to. What I do for those geckos that are slower is to pull the hind legs off the roaches, that tends to make them slower and easier to catch.

Also understand that during the breeding season, females are often ovulating, males are excited, they may eat less or sometimes not eat at all. So if they were not fed well before the breeding season starts, it may be a bit difficult to get them to pack on the weight once they stop eating. Again there's not much you can do about this, it's something you try to plan ahead and hope the geckos are all well fed and plump before the season begins.

 

[acpart]

I've written a few articles for Gecko Time about feeding techniques for stubborn geckos. The second one probably addresses the issues you're talking about:
Answering "Why won't my gecko eat?" | Gecko Time
?My Gecko Will Not Eat? Part 2 | Gecko Time

I have had a lot of luck with superworms for geckos that have trouble catching their prey: they move more than mealworms and are bigger and slower than crickets.

There's a device called a UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply, not the package company) that you can plug your incubator (or anything else) into that will let it run off batteries for a number of hours if the power goes out.

Currently I have 2 "problem feeders" in 2 different situations:
Oskar, my problem male, who gets a respiratory infection every winter and usually doesn't eat anything between about Dec. and May. This fall/winter he had an infection in his hemipenes and another respiratory infection (vet visits all around). He lost even more weight than usual, started getting that sunken in look around the head. I was reduced to giving him water by syringe (not forced into the mouth, but dripped onto front of mouth) and pushing superworm guts into his mouth. I really thought I was going to lose him. All of a sudden (as usual with him) in May the switch flipped and now he's eating 2-4 superworms at every meal and gaining weight.

Mandarine, my young female: I've been trying to get her up to weight for breeding (she's a year old). Then she got into that awful position where she stopped eating because she was ovulating when nearly at breeding weight. I bred her, hoping she would get hungry after she laid her eggs. She continued to drop weight, getting down below 40 grams. I have since separated her and am hand feeding her every evening. She's slowed down on the weight loss, finally laid the egg (infertile) she had inside her and I'm hoping things will turn around for her too.

Aliza

 

[FBody355]

And have you ever thought about a propane heater for occasions when the power goes out and it's really cold out? We had propane heat when I was in the mountains, which was a great thing when we lost power. I beleive they sell them specifically for campers too that would work for you.

 

[LCReptiles]

No I hadn't thought of any of that cause where I'm from barring a hurricane or other severe weather we never lost power. I didn't realize that in the mountains a strong breeze blows the power down for 2 weeks at a time.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

LC - my story is almost exactly like yours however I have not had the hardships you describe over the last year. I also invested a decent amount into a 1.3 group of acids and typhoons from Travis. The two typhoons are eating and doing awesome. The typhoon gal went off food for a few weeks when she began to ovulate and lost a few grams but has started eating like a champ these last two weeks. The female is about 54g (hatched June 2012) and the male about 48g (hatched late August 2012). The male in particular is a typhoon acid stripe and is friendly, FABULOUS, and a total chowhound!

The jungle acid stripe and acid rain I have from him are growing very slowly. Both began to ovulate like CRAZY In April/May. I could see 10+ pink dots in their bellies for a few weeks and they were off food completely for a week or two and have been barely eating these last 2-4 weeks. I've tried dubia, mealworms, supers, and wax worms on tongs and loose in the cage. Nothing seems to entice them to eat more than one or two bugs every few days. The Jungle gal went from 37g to 33g and started eating slowly last week once I removed her moist hide. The acid rain bolted up to 51g and is currently about 44g. They are both active and alert, haven't been losing weight insanely fast, and their colors are still bright. The females in my Tremper and Bold groups are from other breeders and had similar reactions to ovulating, even though they did not do so quite as small as these Rainwaters, so I haven’t been worried enough to contact Travis. Those females were hatched much earlier as well, around March or April of 2012 and the Acids were hatched in July/August so they seemed to be following the same pattern. I’m planning to hold off breeding them both until the 2014 season to give them some more time to grow.

I’m going to email Travis a link to this thread so he might be able to comment and lend some of his fabulous experience and advice to us both

 

[LCReptiles]

Thanks Lisa.

I have emailed and talked to Travis multiple times. Have sent him pictures of my setup and he said things should be turning around, and to an extent they are. When I put the Dubias in the other night they went nuts! Only problem, they couldn't catch them and after a few attempts kind of gave up. I also am getting used to having older geckos so I am feeding every other day instead of trying each night the way I was. This past Sunday is the first time I weighed them (being away from home for weeks at a time at college = subpar care ) Anyway, I am not going to reweigh until this Sunday and the wait is KILLING me. My 85g girl was start to bulge a little around the middle (I am not very adept at spotting ovulation, eggs etc so far) so I put the male in with her last night.. probably too late. Travis is a great, but busy guy with all his animals and work, plus he's west coast and I'm east coast. As far as I know there are only 3 of us working with the Acids right now so if you'd ever like to chat feel free to email me [email protected]

 

[DrCarrotTail]

I've been feeding my non-breeding adults 2-3 times a week so they are hungry when they get food! I also weigh every 7-14 days so I don't convince myself there is an issue when there isn't one. I don't like growing them too quickly so all of their systems have the time to "keep up" with their size. Travis' geckos seem super good at regulating themselves! Haha.

I feel for you having to wait. I have my Trempers and Bolds breeding and eggs hatching like crazy so I have more than enough to do to keep me occupied and keep my hands from itching to breed these Rainwaters. In fact, the 5 or 6 "free" hours I have between work and sleep is barely enough time to play with dogs, make it to the gym, eat dinner and take care of them all! I need to learn to function better on 5 hours of sleep...haha.

I don't know how you do it being away at college! I'm super nervous leaving my guys with a pet sitter even for a week! I'm planning my 4th of July trip around my snake laying eggs just so I don't miss out on these babies I've been hoping for for far too long!!

 

[LCReptiles]

Well when I transferred to Tech it was never my plan to be away from the geckos or the family. Just real life has a way of making my car stop working or something stupid and I was kind of forced into it. I spent the majority of this past spring semester sleeping on a friends couch while my family and geckos were 50 minutes away. We just moved June 1st so we are all in the same place and I'm working to get things back into working order. I'm also taking 6 credits during the first summer session to make up for withdrawing last fall semester so I have a chapter of Ecology that is due each night and am working on Music Appreciation in the meantime. Once you throw in the anxiety ... put a fork in me.. cause I'm done! LOL

 

[DrCarrotTail]

I neglected everything (except for my caffeine addiction) during my last year or two of grad school. I still have nightmares about living in an attic and taking 8 credits of organic chemistry one summer in college...haha. I feel your pain! Glad everything is starting to fall in place

 

[LCReptiles]

LOL, but I'm an undergrad... at 37 /cry.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

I have a 46 year old undergrad working for me! He doesn't even have any geckos!!

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

Hey Jeff, glad to see you seeking for additional advice and opinions. Thanks Lisa for sending me the link. There are plenty of great breeders who have had different experiences or insight which may help more than advice I can give. Well since our last chat, and your mentioning husbandry changes, I still think that they will turn around great for you. Now that their enclosures are adjusted to better suit their needs they should pick up. When conditions are not ideal, most reptiles refuse to eat as their goal is to seek ideal conditions instead of settling in and engorging themselves which requires a decent amount of energy to digest. Keep trying active prey (roaches, crickets, etc.) and as long as they are tracking and attempting to feed, they will eat and will bounce right back. As always feel free to contact me with more questions or concerns. Aliza's links are also very beneficial .